2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

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2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby falkor » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:18 pm

1 as you are walking along Pugnacious Avenue a woman runs out of her front garden to you saying, "Oh good, glad I saw you PCSO I want to ask you a question.

"My little Jimmy is 13 on Saturday and his big brother Ted has saved up and bought him a BB gun, what a great birthday present, but I need to check it with you legally"

What do you advise her?


2 The following day you hear a call on your radio "Any units near Farmer Giles cow field ? Farmer has caught 2 x 13 year old lads on his land with an air rifle - he has them detained but they just need a flea in their ear probably"

There is no other unit and as you are only 100 yards away you go to the farmer, what do you advise the farmer/ boys who are not playing up or aggressive in anyway, you are satisfied the air rifle is not stolen and they are all cooperative and wish to listen and abide by your advice! But what is your advice??
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby Bert Moffat » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:43 pm

1. Take it back to the shop and get a refund.

2. The boys are not old enough to legally use the air guns and will be dealt with accordingly.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby falkor » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:06 pm

anyone else interested? Is Bert right or wrong? :slwoot:
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby Bert Moffat » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:21 pm

Right.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby steven » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:14 am

1/ I wouldn't see any problems with it however would advise not carrying it in public (especially if it looks like a replica, not brightly coloured plastic). Give advice on being sensible about where he points it.

2/ obtain names and addresses and seize the rifle (get it tested for pressure, legal limit is 13lbs). My reasons for seizing it would be for safety of the public so I don't think I would be doing anything wrong. Also speak to the farmer to find out if he gave permission for them to use his land.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby Bert Moffat » Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:04 am

steven wrote:Also speak to the farmer to find out if he gave permission for them to use his land.


Its the farmer who has detained them and phoned it in.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby moi1985 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:24 am

steven wrote:1/ I wouldn't see any problems with it however would advise not carrying it in public (especially if it looks like a replica, not brightly coloured plastic). Give advice on being sensible about where he points it.

2/ obtain names and addresses and seize the rifle (get it tested for pressure, legal limit is 13lbs). My reasons for seizing it would be for safety of the public so I don't think I would be doing anything wrong. Also speak to the farmer to find out if he gave permission for them to use his land.



What power are you using to seize the air rifle? It is illegal for them to possess in these circumstances yes, but as a PCSO we do not have the power to seize it, yet...!
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby steven » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:49 pm

You don't need a power if it's handed over with consent. Hopefully the officer will have sufficient communication skills to get the kids to hand it over without having to resort to taking it by force. The reason for seizing it would be for the safety of the public.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby falkor » Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:56 pm

first of all, many thanks to Steven, moi and Bert for your answers!

second, here are all the answers on ONE SHEET (300k)

third .... I am just one member like all the others on here ... so it would be a bit high and mighty of me to announce some definitive "answer" here, nevertheless I will be posting my "answers" to Q 1 and 2 next week and again the following week, for Q 3 and 4

meanwhile have a go on Q 3 and 4, please do!!

3. you are patrolling with another PCSO when he stops two young people walking towards you, the first young man is 21 and the second is 14, the first says "I am supervising him"

The 14 year old is carrying an air rifle, as you get it out of the cover you find it is unloaded, (there is no suspicion of theft, neither of you believe it is a stolen item) the PCSO you are with calls up on the radio for a POLICE VAN to attend, what do you do? Your colleague tells you this needs a PC to "make the arrest" what are the offences committed here?


4. you are patrolling with another PCSO when he stops two young people walking towards you, the first young man is 13 and the second is 12, the first has an imitation pistol that looks pretty convincing, but across the barrel is a lug showing clearly it is replica, (you are satisfied that it is an imitation firearm and that it is not stolen) they produce a receipt from the model shop 2 miles away in town "We got it with our pocket money and are just taking it home" they say - what should you do? Are there any offences?
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby Bert Moffat » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:31 am

falkor wrote:.. I will be posting my "answers" to Q 1 and 2 next week


Still waiting Falk, what's the answers then?
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby falkor » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:16 pm

Q1 see Air_weapons_leaf_2013.pdf for the answers, you will see that a person aged under 14 cannot own an air rifle, imitation firearm or BB gun, therefore as little Jimmy is only 13 on Saturday, you must advise the woman that he cannot have it as a birthday present and cannot own it, birthday or not, as he is under age!

Q2 see Air_weapons_leaf_2013.pdf for the answers, you will see that these youths are under age and trespassing with an air rifle, this should be dealt with by PCs not PCSOs so you should call on your radio immediately stating that you have 2 youths trespassing in possession of an air rifle requesting PCs to attend, if no PCs are available (e.g. because of a major incident) advice should be sought from a supervisor as they probably need to be reported for summons offences and the air rifle seized - the whole thing about "they just need a flea in their ear probably" is underestimating the case, which could come back to haunt you several months later on when a Sgt asks to see the "Process File" when it had just been dealt with in a too lenient manner. It could also be argued that the youths should have been arrested in order to accomplish immediate interviews at the Custody Suite, although various approaches to this incident could also be put forward e.g. verify their identities and make appointments for them to attend the Police Station in 7 days with their parents for voluntary interview. An interesting scenario and many may say "why send PCSOs to it in the first place?" but if PCSOs are nearby and PCs a long way off, or not immediately available, I would justify it, PCSOs could at least attend and start "verifying" the youths' identity/ address, make sure they stay there etc.
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby Bert Moffat » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:50 pm

So I was right, what do I win?
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Re: 2013 WEAPONS QUIZ

Postby ruben » Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:36 am

This brings back my days at training school! I always found this a little difficult to remember.

1) Unless offences are committed, there is little that can be done really, unless it appears to be a replica. If this is the case they are committing an offence and can be dealt with accordingly.

2) I think Bert said it all really. In terms of seizing the weapon, this could be easily explained under s.19 PACE, in order to test the weapon if an offence is suspected. IE over the ft.lbs threshold.

3) Unless its on private ground, then anyone under 14 year old has no authority to carry or use the weapon. The 21yr old has committed the offence of giving the weapon to the young lad if this can be proven.

4) Refer to number 1. Im pretty sure there is an offence of giving the replica to the youths also.

Feel free to prove me wrong if ive made a mistake. I suppose it shows the advantages of working in an area with low gun crime! :slgg:
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