First Day Merseyside

PCSO stuff ONLY: Burning issues, high profile questions or cases that have been highlighted in national or local news, let's talk about them IN HERE! A link to the item would be great where possible.

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tezzdj

First Day Merseyside

Post by tezzdj » Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:22 pm

HI

am starting as a PCSO at Merseyside on Monday and idea whats involved in the 6 weeks training?

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by falkor » Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:19 pm

tezz how are you getting on? what was the first day like? :D

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by JimmyRiddle » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:56 am

All the trainers have left since I started, but you may have been trained by Andy Billingsley and Ian Hatton.

They are good guys but I think aren't fully pro-PCSO or perhaps have to follow force policy.

Training was okay in part, but covered lots of stuff we would never do e.g. rape victims. (By that I mean dealing with victims, not raping victims of crime).

We focused on what makes a good PCSO, standard/discretionary powers, functions of the police, role plays, winning hearts and minds, etc. It was a bit namby-pamby, but to be expected for a force that hates PCSOs. You have to give people who walk around Walton in a bizzy uniform with no kit a WHOLE lot of credit.

In Merseyside, you have all the powers of a Constable which were conferred on a traffic warden (now defunct) under the Functions of Traffic Warden Order 1986. I appreciate it is a secondary function, but worth knowing what tools you have. In other words, you can do all the non-endorsables which are now in the 2 tier payment green books and hazardous parking and parking within controlled areas of crossings (OSCO books). The only non-endorsable not in the green booklets are the fines for no seatbelt which you can do, which are in the OCSO books.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Rekhmire » Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:42 pm

Can't do the seatbelt OSCO and non ebdorsables are limited to obstruction and cycling on pavement. I know Andy and Ian but you need to check the standard powers for pcso's , which you can find on the Home Office website and then check Merseyside's force policy to see which ACTUAL powers we have.

Sounds like you've been told the wrong information.

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Big Brother » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:15 am

Rekhmire wrote:Can't do the seatbelt OSCO and non ebdorsables are limited to obstruction and cycling on pavement. I know Andy and Ian but you need to check the standard powers for pcso's , which you can find on the Home Office website and then check Merseyside's force policy to see which ACTUAL powers we have.

Sounds like you've been told the wrong information.

It isn't anything to do with standard powers.

Traffic PCSOs are technically employed as traffic wardens. They are then designated the PCSO powers.
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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Rekhmire » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:19 pm

Can still only apply powers that have been designated, and trained. And the only traffic powers designated and trained in Merseyside are obstruction, restricted areas of pedestrian crossing, dangerous position and cycling on pavement. Nowhere have any PCSO's or PCSTO's been authorised to issue any other FPN's.

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Rekhmire » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:24 pm

And the Traffic element within Merseyside was added AFTER we were PCSO's. So we weren' t ever 'technically' Traffic Wardens. But to make things more complex? Some traffic wardens were changed to become PCSO's and lost their traffic powers, but gained PCSO powers...before getting added the reduced PCSTO traffic powers.

Confused?

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Big Brother » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:25 am

http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/LPp ... onPCSO.pdf

Go straight to page 13, designation of traffic warden powers to PCSOs.

Technically, any PCSO with traffic warden powers must be appointed/have their job changed to traffic warden, and then redesignated with PCSO powers. ACPO admit it is an anomaly, but it is the only way.
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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Rekhmire » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:11 pm

Big Brother wrote:http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/LPp ... onPCSO.pdf

Go straight to page 13, designation of traffic warden powers to PCSOs.

Technically, any PCSO with traffic warden powers must be appointed/have their job changed to traffic warden, and then redesignated with PCSO powers. ACPO admit it is an anomaly, but it is the only way.
Mersyside PCSO's still cannot issue the full range of traffic FPN's. Only the ones designated and trained. Force policy differs from the job description and ACPO guidelines.

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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by Big Brother » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:09 pm

Rekhmire wrote:
Big Brother wrote:http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/LPp ... onPCSO.pdf

Go straight to page 13, designation of traffic warden powers to PCSOs.

Technically, any PCSO with traffic warden powers must be appointed/have their job changed to traffic warden, and then redesignated with PCSO powers. ACPO admit it is an anomaly, but it is the only way.
Mersyside PCSO's still cannot issue the full range of traffic FPN's. Only the ones designated and trained. Force policy differs from the job description and ACPO guidelines.

Maybe so, force policy does tend to fudge with things. But, I am just pointing out the legislation that permits PCSOs to issue FPNS for parking e.t.c.
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Re: First Day Merseyside

Post by JimmyRiddle » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:29 am

Rekhmire wrote:Can't do the seatbelt OSCO and non ebdorsables are limited to obstruction and cycling on pavement. I know Andy and Ian but you need to check the standard powers for pcso's , which you can find on the Home Office website and then check Merseyside's force policy to see which ACTUAL powers we have.

Sounds like you've been told the wrong information.
Yes we can. If it was in the old green/non-endorsable book or anything to do with hazardous parking or parking on a crossing from the pink/endorsable FPN book, then we can do the equivalent OSCO. The riding on the footpath is a PCSO power - ALL the rest are from our Traffic Warden days of which you have the power in Merseyside and in St Helens even moreso. Also, you needed FPN powers to do an FPN, but now OCSOs are a different thing entirely so you don't even need the authorisation to do so.

Don't believe what you're told. I mean, look at the email sent from Helen Cooney re: the new powers - the spreadsheet shows exactly what we can do and there is loads on there most people don't realise.

Andy Billingsley and Ian Hatton are great guys, but like anything with Merseyside, they are told what to teach us and what not to teach because the big wigs have some bizarre idea on what we should be doing. Classic example was with the new powers course in Dec 2013 - they literally skipped right over the truant and communications act PND offences we can now do.

Have you got a PND book in your kit belt? If not, why not? We can now do around 1/3 of the offences listed in it.
Rekhmire wrote:Mersyside PCSO's still cannot issue the full range of traffic FPN's. Only the ones designated and trained. Force policy differs from the job description and ACPO guidelines.
Not all of them as Traffic Wardens were only able to issue a few endorsables but all of the non-endorsables. This has NOTHING to do with the PRA2002 designation powers whether discretionary or standard. Totally different thing. Also, if we're saying we must be trained properly - all our training was very poor.

I don't know how much training you need to do someone for not wearing a seatbelt? This is a non-OSCO ticket BTW and part of the new 2 tiered green-non-endorsable booklets. OCSOs are only for offences with a alternative course offered to the offender. The rest are in the green books.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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