WMP STILL NO STAB VESTS!

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tj49

WMP STILL NO STAB VESTS!

Post by tj49 » Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:32 pm

West Midlands Police are still currently not giving PCSO`s stab vests and are not allowing them to wear there own vests. The Birmingham Evening mail recently conducted a survey, the result was that 99% of the public voted for PCSO`s to have stab vests. Most WMP PCSO`s want some sort of protection, but it looks like it`ll take someone getting hurt before they`ll spend the cash! i do not believe it is down to wanting to make them look less confrontational or every force would not give them out!!!

what can we do???

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Post by falkor » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:18 pm

Monday, 7 August 2006, 18:24 GMT 19:24 UK

Support officers' stab vest fear

The lives of police community support officers (PCSOs) are being put at risk as police chiefs refuse to issue them with stab vests, their union claims.
Unison said some of the PCSOs in the West Midlands, who support full-time officers, were frightened at work as they were not properly protected.

The union said PCSOs in the Warwickshire, Staffordshire and West Mercia forces did get body armour.

West Midlands Police said the PCSO role meant they did not need the vests.

Annette Mansell-Green of Unison said: "Without these vests an officer could end up being killed or seriously injured.

No distinction

"Our members say they are frightened and worried, we think they should be properly protected at work.

"The officers may have a non-confrontational role, but members of the public don't distinguish them from full-time police officers and they confront PCSOs."

There are 305 police community support officers in the West Midlands force area who patrol in uniform.

A spokeswoman for West Midlands Police said: "The role of PCSOs is to primarily provide reassurance, help prevent offences and reduce the fear of crime.

"They are not deployed to confrontational incidents.

"The number of assaults on PCSOs is extremely low which demonstrates they are working within their remit."

She added that the officers did not have powers of detention.

But their role was being reviewed and all aspects of their work would be considered.

> full story here <

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Post by METRO » Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:52 pm

tj49

Hi Mate

Take a look at 'Things are lookin' up for GMP on the Front Door Forum.
It may help you and answer your question, why you don't have body armour.

Regards

METRO :D
'A mind once stretched by a new idea, never regains it's original dimensions'.

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Post by mj12cz » Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:13 pm

Seems to me that in some forces there is no concern for PCSO safety.
Bloody stupid if you ask me.
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Post by DANGEROUS TIGER » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

Body armour should be a priority for all P.C.S.O.s Any force that cannot see that, is severely lacking in brain power. :cry:
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stab vests

Post by emmacrowther » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:00 am

after reading in my local paper that cso in west mids dont issue stab vests i was shocked for these people.

i thought that a cso job was to provide a more visible apperance for the community and to reduce anti social behaviour im sorry but some people that we come across today i no i would be scared to approach them without the appropriate protection.

i think west mids need to take a look at the health and safety and to to take more pride in there cso's safety.

i start my training in january 07 and in march this year i received my uniform fitting form and the first thing on th frist page was asking me to take measurements for my stab vest!(west mercia)

all i can say is good look to the cso's in west mids and keep fighting for what you need!

ACBailey

ACBailey

Post by ACBailey » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:00 am

I can't belive what I am hearing. I am a Council Accredited Officer and I carry out a similar role to PCSO's, but also deal with long term ASB investigations. The fisrt thing I asked for in the job was a stab vest. It is a confrontational job not just when your patrolling out on the street, but when visiting people in their homes (Where there are numerous items that could be used against you i.e. kitchen knives, scissors). All our PCSO's and PC's have to where stab vests when they go out and we are even in the process of getting them for our street wardens. As they say s**t happens!. All that I can say that if you do end up getting stabbed (GOD FORBID) you'll have one hell of a law suite. :( . Start building up a case i.e. Articles relating to assaults on officers, Stabbing incidents etc to back up your arguments.

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Post by safety » Wed Aug 30, 2006 5:45 pm

After reading all of the above i would like to insert my own (objective) view.

I am a PCSO in the West Mids as some of you maybe aware if youve read other threads. I have been in WMP for 18 Months, and perform my duties to their full - WITHOUT A STAB VEST.. The force is fulfilling its duties RE Health and Safety so please lets not refer to the H and E thing again, do you think that if they werent fulfilling their duties they would be allowed to get away with it??? And DT it has nothing to do with brain power :wink:

Lets not beat around the bush, current WMP PCSOs were never told at any point that they would be getting a stab vest. They entered employment with all the information they needed to make a decision as whether to apply for the position or not.

Quote from myself taken from another thread - I have sat at consultations with the ACC and i firmly believe that money is not a MAJOR contributing factor for not issuing stab vests, of course it is in the background but i truly feel that if it was shown that PCSOs in the West Mids needed them then they would be issued.

The way the force will review this is by the amount of 'near misses'. If PCSO's are reporting regularly coming across these situations then the force will have its hands tied and will HAVE to issue them. At this stage though this is not the case.

I dare say that there is a high level of knife crime in the West Mids, however its not everyday you get approached by knife weilding maniacs (trust me). I work in one of the most deprived areas of Birmingham, where both knife crime and gun crime are in existence yet i have never come across a situation where by i feel i would have been more protected if i had a stab vest, believe me if i felt we needed them i would whole heartedly be concentrating on working with the unions to look at this.


I think this quote from the article sums it up.
A spokeswoman for West Midlands Police said: "The role of PCSOs is to primarily provide reassurance, help prevent offences and reduce the fear of crime.

"They are not deployed to confrontational incidents.

"The number of assaults on PCSOs is extremely low which demonstrates they are working within their remit."

She added that the officers did not have powers of detention.

But their role was being reviewed and all aspects of their work would be considered.
Please lets hear from other West Mids officers about their views...i will be intrigued to hear the responses.

Safety :D

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Post by r_brotheridge » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:27 pm

I'm due to start in October in the west mids and my personal view is that if the force can ensure the safety of it's pcso's without them, then so be it.

Issuing a stab vest would make officers look even more like PC's which could in turn act as a magnet for incidents involving sharps, whereas at the moment the level of near misses is low, as far as I am aware, please correct me if i'm wrong.

so to sum up, until such day the government makes it policy i think it's best we don't have them.

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safety
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Post by safety » Wed Aug 30, 2006 6:57 pm

r_brotheridge wrote:I'm due to start in October in the west mids and my personal view is that if the force can ensure the safety of it's pcso's without them, then so be it.

Issuing a stab vest would make officers look even more like PC's which could in turn act as a magnet for incidents involving sharps, whereas at the moment the level of near misses is low, as far as I am aware, please correct me if i'm wrong.

so to sum up, until such day the government makes it policy i think it's best we don't have them.
I think that when the force decides that PCSOs need this level of protection it will be made available. You are correct that the level of 'near misses' is low and believe me if they were high, the force would issue stab vests. R_brotheridge, i am glad that you have the same view as i, good luck with your training etc, do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Safety :D

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Post by r_brotheridge » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:06 pm

safety wrote:
r_brotheridge wrote:I'm due to start in October in the west mids and my personal view is that if the force can ensure the safety of it's pcso's without them, then so be it.

Issuing a stab vest would make officers look even more like PC's which could in turn act as a magnet for incidents involving sharps, whereas at the moment the level of near misses is low, as far as I am aware, please correct me if i'm wrong.

so to sum up, until such day the government makes it policy i think it's best we don't have them.
I think that when the force decides that PCSOs need this level of protection it will be made available. You are correct that the level of 'near misses' is low and believe me if they were high, the force would issue stab vests. R_brotheridge, i am glad that you have the same view as i, good luck with your training etc, do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Safety :D
cheers safety :)
call me Richard by the way :)

at the end of the day the CC and ACC's have all been doing there job longer than i've been around, so they know what they are doing, I've met Paul Scott Lee and he is a nice bloke, you can tell he has the officers safety at heart. so if he says we don't need them, then we don't need them, simple as in my opinion.

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Post by safety » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:12 pm

r_brotheridge wrote:
safety wrote:
r_brotheridge wrote:I'm due to start in October in the west mids and my personal view is that if the force can ensure the safety of it's pcso's without them, then so be it.

Issuing a stab vest would make officers look even more like PC's which could in turn act as a magnet for incidents involving sharps, whereas at the moment the level of near misses is low, as far as I am aware, please correct me if i'm wrong.

so to sum up, until such day the government makes it policy i think it's best we don't have them.
I think that when the force decides that PCSOs need this level of protection it will be made available. You are correct that the level of 'near misses' is low and believe me if they were high, the force would issue stab vests. R_brotheridge, i am glad that you have the same view as i, good luck with your training etc, do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Safety :D
cheers safety :)
call me Richard by the way :)

at the end of the day the CC and ACC's have all been doing there job longer than i've been around, so they know what they are doing, I've met Paul Scott Lee and he is a nice bloke, you can tell he has the officers safety at heart. so if he says we don't need them, then we don't need them, simple as in my opinion.
He is a very nice bloke as is ACC Shaw.

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Post by METRO » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:17 pm

Guy's

Until you have been faced with a knife or gun incident, you will cling to the belief that vest's are not needed.
I'm glad that you haven't had such a bad experience.
No near miss is acceptable no matter how low the volume of incidents, it only takes one!
As for looking like the police wearing one, I disagree!
Vests have been around long before the police ever started to use them.
They were used in the military and by the press covering war zones etc.
Even ambulance crews, traffic wardens, security officers and local authority wardens wear them.

Do you think that so many other partnership agencies and other police services could be wrong by issuing them?
Remember it is only an item of protective clothing and should not affect you or the way that you do your job or how you are recieved by members of the public. It is only a protective vest, a preventative measure against a very real threat to personnel safety.
You could argue that we already look like police by wearing our hi vis jackets, it does have the word 'police' on it at some point in your job title.

I wish we lived in an age where vests, cuffs or batons etc were not needed. I don't think anyone really wants to go out dressed like Batman on patrol. :D
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Post by pippie » Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:29 pm

I have to say that I wouldn't feel safe patroling the streets without a vest, I know its not a confrontational roll but there's alwyays someone who doesn't care about what powers you may or may not have and may just decide to take it out on you.
Then again I haven't even started yet so maybe I'll change my mind once I'm out on the streets.

Pippie.

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Post by matt_w » Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:18 pm

I would like to know why or how they can justify stopping individuals wearing their own (especially if they are covert) protective vests.

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