WMP STILL NO STAB VESTS!

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safety
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Post: # 113971Post safety
Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:56 pm

r_brotheridge wrote:isn't it funny how that person hasn't been back on to insult me some more, hmm, i wonder why?
Because we told him the truth mate, thats why! :wink:

PCSO Bham

Post: # 114075Post PCSO Bham
Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:14 pm

Maybe I am not sad enough to spend my spare time out of work hours on the internet talking about work????

I love my job and I felt compelled to post a comment on this subject.

U need to get out more mate.

Bye

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safety
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Post: # 114183Post safety
Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:50 am

PCSO Bham wrote:Maybe I am not sad enough to spend my spare time out of work hours on the internet talking about work????

I love my job and I felt compelled to post a comment on this subject.

U need to get out more mate.

Bye

Hence this reply out of work time, about a work related matter, hmmmmmmmm. :lol: Something tells me your maybe not quite getting the point your trying to make here.

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Jemma_Louise
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Post: # 114395Post Jemma_Louise
Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:38 pm

everyone is entitled to an opinion so no-one should be attacked for it
DOING MY TRAINING ........

THANKS JAY + RICH 4 UR SUPPORT!!!

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THEdarkKNIGHT
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Post: # 123005Post THEdarkKNIGHT
Wed May 30, 2007 9:18 pm

HI ALL SORY I HAVE NOT HAD CHACE TO CHAT FOR A WHILE JUST BEEN REALLY BUSY AT WORK. I HAVE JUST READ ALL THE POSTS ON THIS AND I DO AGERE R. BROTHERIDGE I A GOOD BLOKE AS I HAVE READ HIS OLD POSTS .

I DO THINK WE SHOULD HAVE STAB VESTS AS IF YOU HAVE SEEN MY POSTS BEFORE I THINK WE ARE MILES BEHIND WITH THE REST OF THE UK IN THAT AND I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD HAVE MORE POWERS IN BHM AS WE ONLY HAVE A FEW I THINK THEY SHOULD STANDERED POWERS ACROSS THE UK WHICH WILL BE BETTER .

I HAVE RESPECT FOR MR SCOTT LEE BUT I THINK HE SHOULD COME OUT ON THE STREETS WITH A PCSO AND SEE HOW BAD IT CAN GET OUT THERE .

LIKE I HAVE SAID BEFORE I LOVE MY JOB I HAVE BEEN A PCSO FOR JUST OVER A YEAR NOW AND I HAVE WORKED MY SOCKS OFF TO GET WHRER I AM TODAY AND THAT IS AT THE TOP BUT IT HAS BEEN DANGERUS.

A STAB VEST IS THERE TO PROTECT YOU NOT TO GET YOU INTO MORE TROUBLE. SOMER PCSO MIGHT TRY TO BE MORE MATCHO BUT THERE ARE SOME PCS LIKE THAT TOO.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE IF YOU ARE READING THIS MR SCOTT LEE GIVE US MORE POWERS AND PROTECTION.

ON A NOTHER NOTE I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT PST TRAINING IS NOW 2 DAYS LONG FOR PCSO AND THEY ARE TEACHING PCSO TO PUT ON HAND CUFFS

HAS ANY ONE HURD ABOUT THIS OR HAD THE TRAINING
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

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r_brotheridge
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Post: # 123009Post r_brotheridge
Wed May 30, 2007 9:26 pm

THEdarkKNIGHT wrote: On another note I have been told that PST tarining is now 2 days long for PCSO and they are teaching PCSO to put on hand cuffs
Sorry i converted it to lower case, i just find it a little hard to read in caps.

Pcso's as far as i'm aware aren't being taught to use cuffs, i have asked somebody who is there at the moment and they have verified this, but my ost/pst/udt whatever you wish to call it, was indeed 2 days, although most of the 1st was class based.

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Post: # 123286Post falkor
Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:26 pm

Who deserves to be protected on our streets?
May 31 2007

By Jonathan Walker Political Editor

The Home Office is to intervene in the row over West Midlands Police's refusal to supply body armour to Police Community Support Officers.

Police Minister Tony McNulty is to write to Paul Scott-Lee, the force's Chief Constable, asking for an explanation.

Civilian officers have been told they cannot use stab-proof vests on the streets of Birmingham and other inner-city areas covered by the West Midlands force.


But their colleagues in neighbouring rural forces such as Warwickshire and West Mercia have been issued with the protective clothing.

Ministers have been forced to step in following pressure from MPs, who complained that forces were operating "a postcode lottery in safety".

Until now, the Government has insisted it is a matter for individual forces and it will not get involved.

The discrepancy in the way Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) are treated was uncovered by Black Country MP Tom Watson (Lab West Bromwich East).

He used the Freedom of Information Act to discover which forces provided body armour, after Ministers told him the information was not available.

It emerged that four out of England's 39 forces - including West Midlands Police, Staffordshire Police and Surrey Police - failed to provide vests.

The role of PCSOs focuses on reassuring the public rather than confronting criminals, but they can still face violence.

Last year there were 272 assaults on PCSOs across the country, according to the Home Office.

And West Midlands Police, which employs 498 PCSOs, has reported 48 assaults since they were introduced in 2003.

Trade union Unison is expected to demand a uniform system across the country to ensure every PCSO receives the same equipment, when it holds its annual conference in the summer.

Annette Mansell-Green, branch secretary of Unison's West Midlands Police branch, said: "Just a few weeks ago a PCSO was punched in the face in Birmingham City Centre.

"People don't read the small print on the uniform and don't differentiate between a PCSO and a police officer.

"To someone who has an aggressive attitude towards the police, you are a target."

She said it was not the role of PCSOs to confront criminals or suspects.

"But this doesn't stop them being vulnerable and the number of assaults speaks for itself."

PCSOs were introduced by the Police Reform Act 2002, partly in an effort to create a more visible law-enforcement presence on the streets.

They are civilians, rather than police officers, with limited powers to detain and fine people.

> more

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JCH
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Post: # 123357Post JCH
Sat Jun 02, 2007 12:33 am

It's about time someone looked into this...

cannon fodder

Post: # 123383Post cannon fodder
Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:48 pm

Last summer on duty in WMP i was attacked and punched by two different offenders whilst surronded by 10 other yobs goading the others to carry on. I recieved a black eye and concussion. I was off work due to injuries sustained.

The reason recorded assaults are so low in our force is due to them being recorded incorectly. My assault was recorded as a s47 rather than being crimed as a section 47 on a (accredited person excersing there powers).

On questioning why it hadn't been crimed as the correct offence, as there is an offence of assaulting a PCSO who is exercising their powers, I was told not to worry!!

Unfortunetly these incidents happen and are over looked. I wasn't even told to fill out a near miss form?!

I hope something is done soon with the protective vest issue. There are alot more PCSO in WMP now = more likely hood of a real tradgedy taking place.

i hope Paul Scott Lee sees sense soon.

Peace

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JCH
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Post: # 123413Post JCH
Sat Jun 02, 2007 5:37 pm

Cannon fodder you must be one of those PCSO that want to be a Police Officer as I was told by West Mids Director of Personnel that only PCSO's wanting to be PC's get assaulted.... Great responce to Health and safety me thinks...

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safety
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Post: # 123429Post safety
Sat Jun 02, 2007 6:17 pm

cannon fodder wrote:The reason recorded assaults are so low in our force is due to them being recorded incorectly. My assault was recorded as a s47 rather than being crimed as a section 47 on a (accredited person excersing there powers).
This has nothing to do with it mate. It is ALL about filling in the health and safety forms in the correct way, honest :wink:

Believe me, im a PC and with all due respect know alot more about the way that criming works, home office counting rules and crime clearance.

To my understanding and to clarify it would not be a Sec 47 Assault on an accredited person but...an offence under Sec 46(1) of the Police Reform Act 2002 that deals with all the offences in relation to 'accredited people' in respect of assault, obstruct, impersonate etc etc.

If you ever have dealings with CPS then you will understand what it is like for them to run with things. Having it crimed and dealt with as a Section 47 assault means that the onus of proof is small.

If you are going down the route of assault on accredited persons and exercising your powers/duty then you must demonstrate that you were doing that for the person to complete the offence.
Offences against designated and accredited persons.

(1) Any person who assaults-

(a) a designated person in the execution of his duty,
(b) an accredited person in the execution of his duty, or
(c) a person assisting a designated or accredited person in the execution of his duty is guilty of an offence

Assault occasioning actual bodily harm.

It is an offence to assault a person, thereby causing them actual bodily harm.
Contrary to section 47 offences against the person act
And all this for limited difference in sentencing. Can you now see why it was dealt with in this way?
Image

cannon fodder

Post: # 123530Post cannon fodder
Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:11 pm

Thanks for the reply Safety. It just angers me when I here the head of personnel saying there were only 2 recorded assaults on PCSO last year! In that case it must of been me and one other person?! :? :? some how I find this hard to believe!

JCH ive heard that one before aswell :D You can't just simply want to be a PCSO surely haha.

PS how do you register yourself in this chat room?? And upload a pic?? Ive been posting on here for a couple of years now and havn't managed to work it out! Sorry not very computer literate :D

Peace

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ANT
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Post: # 123990Post ANT
Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:17 pm

Community police demand body armour
Jun 6 2007
By Jonathan Walker, Political Editor


West Midland Police was under pressure to supply body armour to Community Support Officers – after another force revealed it was providing armour for its dogs.

MPs stepped up their campaign for stab vests, following South Yorkshire Police's announcement that its firearms support dogs will be equipped with lightweight armour.

A House of Commons motion signed by 17 MPs called for Community Support Officers to have the same protection in every part of the country.

Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs) have been told they cannot use stab-proof vests on the streets of Birmingham and other areas covered by the West Midlands force.

But neighbouring forces including West Mercia and Warwickshire have issued their staff with protective clothing. Of England's 39 forces, only Staffordshire and Surrey follow the same policy as the West Midlands.

MPs have backed calls from trade union Unison for every PCSO to receive stab vests.

Now they have demanded to know why South Yorkshire dogs are receiving more protection than West Midlands staff.

In a Commons motion sponsored by Tom Watson (Lab West Bromwich East) they said they "look forward to the say when the chief constables of Staffordshire, Surrey and West Midlands police issue their Police Community Support Officers with similar protection."

Other MPs to sign the motion include Siôn Simon (Lab Erdington), Richard Burden (Lab Northfield), David Kidney (Lab Stafford), Adrian Bailey (Lab West Bromwich West), Lynda Waltho (Lab Stourbridge), Ian Austin (Lab Dudley North), Paul Farrelly (Lab Newcastle-under-Lyme), Khalid Mahmood (Lab Perry Barr) and David Wright (Lab Telford).

Mr Watson said: "Police Community Support Officers face a postcode lottery in safety and this is unacceptable.

"The fact that police dogs are fitted with protective armour in some parts of the country demonstrates how illogical the current situation is."

PCSOs are civilians employed to assist the police and provide a visible law and order presence on the police.

West Midlands Police, which employs 498 PCSOs, has reported 48 assaults since they were introduced in 2003.

The discrepancy in the way PCSOs are treated was uncovered by Mr Watson who used the Freedom of Information Act to discover which forces provided body armour, after Ministers told him the information was not available.

Home Office Minister Tony McNulty last month said he would to write to Paul Scott-Lee, the force's Chief Constable, asking for an explanation.

PCSOs were introduced by the Police Reform Act 2002, partly in an effort to create a more visible law-enforcement presence on the streets.

They are civilians, rather than police officers, with limited powers to detain and fine people.

West Midlands Police argues that PCSOs play a different role to police officers and should not be equipped in the same way.

A spokesman for West Midlands Police said: "Police Community Support Officers work alongside the police in a supporting role and provide a visible presence in the community, dealing with minor incidents and helping to reassure the public."

The dog-protection vests, made from a woven metal mesh, were specially designed to protect a dog's neck and shoulders whilst being comfortable, lightweight and easy to use for the handler.

>>FULL STORY<<
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THEdarkKNIGHT
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Post: # 124010Post THEdarkKNIGHT
Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:35 pm

that just takes the mick now dogs get better protection than us, it really takes the mick when blood sucking mps care more about our safety than our employers.

its just more protection we ask for.

a builder works on a buildig site and has to wear a hard hat but why ?

Does he ask for bricks to be thrown at his head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont think so its just incase i happens

we are just asking for the same.

GIVE US STAB VESTS
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

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Post: # 124104Post Guest
Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:36 pm

Will we ever get vests? That is the question!

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