Pcso " powers of arrest "

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PI & GI
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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by PI & GI » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:14 am

Agreed, but it does not mean you should not rise to the challenge if the situation requires it and you can justify what you do as there seem to be too many 'bystanders' in this job that could give us all a bad name. Sometimes- just sometimes when a PC unit is not close, you have to do what you do to at least been seen to try.
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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by PI & GI » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:15 am

our forces OST team tell us this and gear us up to this.
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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by CIDB » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:03 pm

Ours dont

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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by ruben » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:33 pm

I have to say, im rather surprised at some of the responses on this thread. I've done both roles so i know what the remit of a PCSO is, but like some have said policy and procedure should be followed, but there will be times when you will have to put your foot forward and make a decision for yourself and not refer to 'policy'.

What happens if you are told that under no circumstances are you to use any person powers whilst on duty, and you come across an elderly lady being mugged/someone being sexually assaulted etc. Are you going to stand there and take notes and be a professional witness or are you going to step in and use force to protect the victim and apprehend an offender if it is safe to do so?

I dont care what anybody says; if you come across an incident like this (i know its at the far end of the scale) and you dont act because 'policy' states you shouldnt, there is seriously something wrong IMO. Im pretty certain that SMTs and fellow colleagues would fully support you in these situations, rather than it being the other way around.

I know in my force, CSOs have been applauded and commended for their actions on numerous occasions when 'policy' has said NOT to get involved, but they have done.
Constable of 6 years, previously PCSO 18 months

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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by Arthur ASCII » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:40 pm

Hi Ruben,

I don't doubt that any PCSO would "get stuck in" in the scenario you propose.

Problems arise when Controllers deploy PCSOs inappropriately and the PCSOs attend, knowing that the jobs are out of their remit, but their eagerness to please outweighs their common sense.

In these situations, employers are not always supportive.
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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by ruben » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:04 pm

Hi Arthur,

I completely agree, and often think that controllers and their supervisors should be trained in the NDM model and risk assessing incidents on their own merit rather than trying to get the 'job' dished out to stop their timers running; Alas this seems to be happening more frequently than when i was a CSO.

I was trying to put across that something had to be done if you came by such an incident, mainly because it would be morally right rather than because an intranet page on the computer at the nick said you couldn't do it. We live in such a blameworthy culture; maybe this has something to do with it?
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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:10 pm

Big Brother wrote:
PI & GI wrote:Policy is guideline and best practice thats's all, so the SMT potentially have no argument if we use the law in the right context and powers even if they dont like it.
If you do something that is against force policy, legal or not a savvy defence lawyer can use it to get a case dropped.
CIDB wrote:Because you would be acting outside of your duties.
Simply not true. A defence lawyer should also know (but will obviously not say) that the law overrides force policy.

By the same logic, the force could introduce contracts/policy which say we are all to work a 60 hour working week with NO lunch breaks. "But I'll get sacked if I don't comply!" Surely the European working time directive is legislation which makes the above illegal? (No the fact that it's Europe wide doesn't make a diff).

By the same logic, the force cannot stop you as A PERSON from using any person powers. Do they have the power to repeal or amend legislation now, I'd love to see that one... Yes, force policy being counter productive doesn't help, but that won't or shouldn't get a job thrown out. There's plenty of case law relevant e.g. http://www.freebeagles.org/caselaw/CL_b ... _full.html

I've had unreasonable force complaints myself in the past, they've never been happy about it but they've always gone nowhere as I stand up for myself and can justify how it was necessary at the time.

It's too many "but what if!" people that make this country the state it's in at the moment. Perhaps we need a legal department who stand up to civil claims that are unfounded or protected by law?

People that are of the above ilk are generally lazy, a few months from retirement or work in a back office job who want to justify their wages.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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Re: Pcso " powers of arrest "

Post by PI & GI » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:38 am

well said jimmy, thats they problem with this country now, too many people are happy to critise in hindsight but werent actually there.
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