Life saving

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Does your force expect you to enter water to rescue people?

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willt36
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Life saving

Post by willt36 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:54 am

An article appeared in the local paper where a young boy drowned in a flooded pit shaft. The full article can be read through the link below.

http://www.wigantoday.net/wigan-news/Bo ... 3205882.jp

The parents of the dead boy are asking why the PCSO`s did not enter the water to try to save the boy.

I would like to ask a question of them and that is what was a 10 yr old and an eight year old doing 2-3 miles from home playing in a flooded pit?

Why do they not take responsibility for the death of their own child instaed of blaming everyone else. I know for a fact that not even police officers are trained in life saving anymore let alone PCSO`s and all vehicles are equipped with perry lines as an alternative.

There were 5 calls re this incident at five different named locations if it was not for the PCSO`s local knowledge help may never have got there.

The lad was a hero for saving his sister but the parents will have to feel the guilt for the death of their son.

This refers to GMP and i was wondering how other forces are trained for this situation.
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oli
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Post by oli » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:06 am

after some officers drowned in the 80's trying to save a man in the sea none of us are allowed to enter water at any time.

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geordiepaul2005
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Post by geordiepaul2005 » Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:49 am

I don't think the pcso in this story entered the water, its not entirely clear.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-ea ... -17172037/

This story does show that with a bit of common sense it is possible to safely save someone.
I am not sure what force policy is for water up here but I know what I would have done, I have children too and my conscience would get the better of me

mj12cz
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Post by mj12cz » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:29 am

I was talking to a colleague to day about the 4x4 crash I went to on Sunday where 4 kids were tragically killed, he said he would have been no good as he could not swim...

Fair Point..

If the PCSO in question could not swim or was not a strong swimmer he could have ended up as a statistic them self... you do what you can with out putting your self at risk...

Simple answer!
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Big-Si
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Post by Big-Si » Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:30 am

Ex PCSO

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Herdsman
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Post by Herdsman » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:46 pm

This is a tricky one, which unfortunately has had tragic consequences. There is a need to have both sides of the story though and only the PCSO's concerned can answer as to why they did not assist.
It is clear that you should not put yourself into any danger, could these officers swim? I don't know, what was going through their minds at the time. Not everyone has that hero instinct, some freeze this is only human. Yes we'd all say we'd jump in without thinking to save someone, but when you're there who knows. I think this is something that the PCSOs will be wrestling with in their own minds for some time to come and only they can say how they really felt.
I feel very sorry for the parents they clearly feel that more help shopuld have been given, but again it's the old chestnut that the public believe that if your in uniform you are always a hero and can deal with everything.
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brianb
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Post by brianb » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:58 pm

DCI Philip Owen wrote:Asked why the PCSOs had not joined the search he said they were "not trained to the same extent as police officers so wouldn't have been taught how to deal with a situation like this".
An example of what I was saying on the Private security company thread.

http://www.policecommunitysupportoffice ... /viewtopic

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CIDB
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Post by CIDB » Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:04 pm

I would dive in and do my bit.

and I would also help out with any search, as i feel i dont need to be trained on how to search a bush or patch of grass! :wink:

Radman
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Post by Radman » Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:18 pm

I would've gone in, I consider myself a pretty strong swimmer.

You've got to ask yourself whats more important...

Force Policy or a Human life.

If I pulled two kids out of the water and was disciplined for it so be it.
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CIDB
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Post by CIDB » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:12 pm

We ( PCSOs ) are being slammed in the press over this incident.

Its on both Sky news and BBC news.

here is a quote I found on the net " "...community support officers were not trained for `major incidents'". But they are trained as human beings - presumably. How could any adult stand and watch a child drown?"

and I have to say I agree.

brianb
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Post by brianb » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:23 pm

CIDB wrote:here is a quote I found on the net " "...community support officers were not trained for `major incidents'".
That is what I raised in my earlier post.

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CIDB
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Post by CIDB » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:30 pm

So are PC,s taught marine rescue skills at training school?? Errm the answer to that is NO.

So whats your point??????

The point im trying to put across is that as a Adult HUMAN I could not stand and watch a kid drown.

brianb
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Post by brianb » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:33 pm

CIDB wrote:So whats your point??????
The point is PCs undergo life saver training and CSOs do not, and it illustrates my point on the thread I have linked to.

mj12cz
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Post by mj12cz » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:38 pm

I was sky news got the story and the PCSO are being given a hard time...

Nice that the Police force is backing them.
"Its a mother beautiful bridge and its going to be there"

Save the cheer leader, save the world.....

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell

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Headset 57
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Post by Headset 57 » Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:42 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manc ... 006412.stm

You don't have to be trained to jump in after a drowning child."

Oh really, like you don't have to be trained in pursuit driving, riding a bike, firearms, dogs, etc....
Unfortunate incident but this lays firmly at the parents door, in my book. Everybody wants someone to blame and they are lucky they didn't lose 2 children.

Similarly i won't go track side if someones getting juiced or running over the tracks.
Last edited by Headset 57 on Fri Sep 21, 2007 12:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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