Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

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unclve vanya
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Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by unclve vanya » Mon May 19, 2008 5:15 pm

Website - http://www.policeoracle.com/

The row over civilian "community support officers" was reignited by leaders of frontline police.

Officials from the Police Federation published results of a poll which indicated that seven out of 10 people would like to see CSOs replaced by police officers.

It comes just two days before Jacqui Smith faces perhaps her biggest challenge since taking over as Home Secretary.

On Wednesday 21st May, she is due to speak at the Federation's annual conference in front of 1,000 delegates who are still angry over the Government's decision to postpone their pay rise.

The YouGov survey of 2,100 adults, commissioned by the Federation's constables' central committee, showed 70% of respondents said they would feel safer if there were fewer CSOs on the beat and more police officers.

And after being told that constables' start on £21,000 a year compared with £16,000 for a CSO, 57% said Pcs provided better value for money. Just 8% of the public said they would feel safer with more CSOs on the beat at the expense of a cut in police numbers.

Constables' chairman Julie Nesbit said: "The Government's experiment with CSOs has clearly failed. The public want to see police officers, not imitations, on our streets. These findings clearly demonstrate that the public feel safer with police officers patrolling our streets and not civilian staff."

She added: "The constables' central committee warned the Government when CSOs were introduced that trying to police on the cheap was short sighted and it seems our position has now been vindicated."

The Police Federation has opposed CSOs since they were introduced by former home secretary David Blunkett in 2003, claiming they were "policing on the cheap".

Individuals within the Federation have dismissed CSOs as "plastic policemen", "Blunkett's bobbies" and "yellow-clad numpties".

Sounds like a big case of the 'Resentments'. It is unlikely that the Fed will get their way, as PCSOs are well established in all Forces now. Only a change of government might see any changes in policing policies. Not sure what the Conservatives attitudes towards CSOs are at this time. Might be of interest to ask them. :(
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by Marlon » Mon May 19, 2008 5:40 pm

unclve vanya wrote:Sounds like a big case of the 'Resentments'.


Why, particularly?




If they (survey respondents) have been told the following:
unclve vanya wrote: And after being told that constables' start on £21,000 a year compared with £16,000 for a CSO, 57% said Pcs provided better value for money. Just 8% of the public said they would feel safer with more CSOs on the beat at the expense of a cut in police numbers.
I'd imagine the response might have been further polarised, had additional police staff shift allowances been accounted for.

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by jimbo » Mon May 19, 2008 6:06 pm

As per what Marlon says - although the Fed findings might be disputable, I think an independent poll of the public should be done in order to find out what really is thought.

This is still nominally a democracy - if people really do not want PCSOs then we need to start concentrating on trying to fix the problems with the system that meant we had to introduce PCSOs in the first place.
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by plum » Mon May 19, 2008 6:09 pm

"And the survey Said"
Any Survey will give the result the person paying the surveys wants
“Nine out of ten women said their pussys prefer whiskers”
I wonder if the same respondents in the FED survey were asked
“Would you expect the police officers employed to replace PCSOs to undertake all the community work that is now carried out by PCSOs? “
Or would you be happy for the money to go back in the policing pot.

Pointless Mickey Mouse Survey to score cheap points
I sure the FED could find better things to spend its members subs on
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by mj12cz » Mon May 19, 2008 6:33 pm

plum wrote:"And the survey Said"
Any Survey will give the result the person paying the surveys wants
“Nine out of ten women said their pussys prefer whiskers”
I wonder if the same respondents in the FED survey were asked
“Would you expect the police officers employed to replace PCSOs to undertake all the community work that is now carried out by PCSOs? “
Or would you be happy for the money to go back in the policing pot.

Pointless Mickey Mouse Survey to score cheap points
I sure the FED could find better things to spend its members subs on
:green:
LOL great reply Plum....

Yellow Clad numpties.... Love that reply!

I've said it before the Fed is out of date with modern policing....
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by Marlon » Mon May 19, 2008 6:53 pm

plum wrote:"And the survey Said"
Any Survey will give the result the person paying the surveys wants

Pointless Mickey Mouse Survey to score cheap points
I sure the FED could find better things to spend its members subs on
:green:


How many of us have seen the questionnaire? How do you know it's Mickey Mouse?

I'm not disputing your general point with regard to surveys asking loaded questions ... rather, your ostrich-like attitude :wink:


The link in the OP is broken, by the way; http://www.policeoracle.com/news/PCSO-R ... 16313.html





http://www.yougov.com/corporate/aboutus.asp

YouGov has a fine reputation too, AFAIK :?

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by falkor » Mon May 19, 2008 7:34 pm

I've said it before the Fed is out of date with modern policing....
the Fed is simply trying to "protect" it's members viz the reducing number of Police Constables in the UK today

that's why THEY commissioned this survey

I do agree with Plum but what else CAN the Fed do? They are seeing PCSOs doing the work of Constables more and more in more and more Police Forces

this "survey" is simply a "note of protest" from them

I have no doubt that in a month nobody will be talking about it and we'll have moved onto the next gimmick :lol:

it's meaningless

Chief Constables hold the controls over PCSOs, THEY decide how many PCSOs they are going to have year on year and apparently they are not convinced by any of this Fed bluff :wink:

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by abdi1234 » Mon May 19, 2008 9:13 pm

The truth of the matter will be decided when central funding for PCSOs drys up and the Chief Constable choses what balance to spend their resources on.

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by THFC » Mon May 19, 2008 10:05 pm

Can I ask everyone to take off their hat and just be Mr or Mrs Public.

Simple question (and I have no idea how much money is involved) on the money spent.

PC or PCSO - who would you choose to work in your beat?

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by PCSO Mickyboy » Mon May 19, 2008 10:08 pm

abdi1234 wrote:The truth of the matter will be decided when central funding for PCSOs drys up and the Chief Constable chooses what balance to spend their resources on.


Good Point


i hear a rumor that GMP are not replacing there PCSOs when they leave don't no if that is true though. But if they was thats a start
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by r_brotheridge » Mon May 19, 2008 10:14 pm

2,100 people were asked, the population of the UK is over 60million, so, excluding Northern Ireland, and Scotland (no offence you just don't have PCSO's) you are still probably looking at least 40+million and they asked 2,100????? how can that even begin to give you an accurate picture????

just an initial assessment, i'll read the rest when i've had chance to read it properly!

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by mj12cz » Mon May 19, 2008 10:18 pm

Agreed Falk, they are trying to protect their members, however with many posts being civilianised and membership shrinking you would think they would be looking for members rather than pushing people away.

My issue is not that they do not agree with the role, that’s fine, no probes, but what bugs me is the rude comments.. Yellow clad numpties, not to mention all the other things they have said. I have a fed rep on my beat, every time he see me the looks, tuts and shakes his head and there is nothing I can do, I just have to take it.
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by falkor » Tue May 20, 2008 8:53 am

yeah true

but hold on "2,100 people were asked" ?

when PCSOs were brought in in Sept 2002, did they ask 2,100 people what they thought then?

was a survey commissioned to see whether the public wanted PCSOs introduced?

NO!

PCSOs were brought in at the whim of this government, without a thought to what the public wanted, so to 'consult the public now' is just a total laugh
The truth of the matter will be decided when central funding for PCSOs drys up and the Chief Constable choses what balance to spend their resources on.
yes but when will that funding "dry up"? the deadline WAS April this year

but it was extended by a year (without any problem at all!) and I can quite honestly see that happen a few more times yet :mrgreen: PCSOs will be around for a long time to come

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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by PI & GI » Tue May 20, 2008 9:11 am

I understand the objection put across by the FED (Forever Excessive Dissapproval) but surely they need to wake up and smell the modern policing strategies. I agree, the goverment (not just blinkett) were to blame for this role as it was ill thought out and appeared to be a 'win-win' vote winner etc ..etc.. But I am a PCSO, and I am proud to be one! (I have my medical and fitness test for PC soon, then hopefully a start date) But what happened to mutuall respect. They are welcome to their views but not the malliciousness of their 'name calling' -They did not care to do a national survey so the results are all fixed. Every day I go out on my pedal cycle and get a possitive response by the local people because they know me as a local personality, it works. I agree there needs to be more Police officers on the street and not more civilianisation, unfortunatley its getting like the Army now (at the mercy of the M.OD) We are all reasources with cash figures on to the headshed. I do respect the FED but they need to spend some days out on patrol with us to see our role over a period of time (will that happen, i don't think so.. lol maybe we should get unison to sign a petition to the FED to spend some time out on patrol with us.) Peace out.
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Re: Federation Calls for PCSOs to be disbanded

Post by jimbo » Tue May 20, 2008 11:45 am

With respect, unlike PCSOs union reps, ALL fed reps are Police Officers, so actually probably have a very good idea of current Policing.

The majority of them are PCs, and according to our local Fed, the majority of borough reps are operational officers. PCSO's union reps can be any type of police staff as long as they are a union rep as well. Not a criticism of them; I was a union rep before joining the job. But I think that suggesting that Fed reps are less in contact with modern Policing than a Police Staff member is could be seen as slightly short sighted.

The Fed acts on it's members interests; and the fed reps forward on Police Officer's issues and concerns, the ones that we worry about and bring to the attention of the met. That includes Sector Team officers who work with PCSOs. Name calling isn't ideal, but they are doing their job - and when I was a union rep, some of the things I heard said about Police Officers was absolutely shocking!
Does dim rhaid i chi ddweud dim byd. Ond gall niweidio eich amddiffyniad os na fyddwch chi’n son, wrth gael eich holi am rywbeth y byddwch chi’n dibynnu arno nes ymlaen yn y Llys. Gall unrhyw beth yr ydych yn ei ddweud gael ei roi fel tystiolaeth.

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