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Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:01 pm
by Big Brother
I expect though that this man used a camera phone or maybe a small, discreet camcorder. Not a DSLR with telephoto lens and tripods.......

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:06 pm
by Gforceuk
Not filming xmas lights then

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:13 am
by Big Brother
Another one http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/1 ... st-filming

There's a debate on this on another forum, where everyone but me thinks he was out of order. I can't help thinking that she fits the profile perfectly. She appears nervous, she's discreetly filming security features including CCTV cameras on a non-descript public building and she's refusing to answer simple questions.

I also think the guy was actually thinking quite quick on his feet to get details off her by eventually using another offence lol.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:28 am
by typecastboy
All met officers should have been sent an email by the Assistant Commissioner telling us not to stop and account or search people who are taking photographs, or to stop people taking photographs of anything or anyone unless you suspect that they are a terrorist, or in exceptional circumstances.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:48 am
by falkor
hiya TC = haha well it's still happening by the look of it

Man held in police station for eight hours after taking pictures of Christmas celebrations in Accrington
Paul Lewis guardian.co.uk, Sunday 21 February 2010 23.55

Police questioned an amateur photographer under anti-terrorist legislation and later arrested him, claiming pictures he was taking in a Lancashire town were "suspicious" and constituted "antisocial behaviour".

Footage recorded on a video camera by Bob Patefield, a former paramedic, shows how police approached him and a fellow photography enthusiast in Accrington town centre. They were told they were being questioned under the Terrorism Act.

Senior police officers last year promised to scale back the use of anti-terrorist legislation such as Section 44 of the act, which deals with photographers, after a series of high-profile cases in which photographers said they had been harassed by police for taking innocuous images in the street.

Patefield and his friend declined to give their details, as they are entitled to under the act. The police then appeared to change tack, saying the way the men were taking images constituted "antisocial behaviour". Patefield, who is in his 40s, was stopped three times before finally being arrested.

He and his friend were taking photographs of Christmas festivities on 19 December, after attending a photography exhibition. The last images on his camera before he was stopped show a picture of a Santa Claus, people in fancy dress and a pipe band marching through the town.

He turned on his video camera the moment he was approached by a police community support officer (PCSO). In the footage, she said: "Because of the Terrorism Act and everything in the country, we need to get everyone's details who is taking pictures of the town."

Patefield declined to give his details and, after asking if he was free to go, walked away. However the PCSO and a police officer stopped the men in another part of the town. This time, the police officer repeatedly asked him to stop filming her and said his photography was "suspicious" and "possibly antisocial".

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:23 pm
by Big Brother
This shows an utter lack of knowledge on the part of the cop and the sergeant i'm afraid. Yes, you can demand details from people acting in an antisocial manner, but in this instance? He refused details quite legitimately so they changed their minds and thought of something else instead.
If he'd been taking photos of kiddies in a park then fair enough, you'd expect complaints and you'd have grounds to get his details. But christmas decorations? Please.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:26 am
by falkor
Image
stop taking photos in public ONCE AND FOR ALL will you!
Two more incidents have come to light about officers seizing cameras from press photographers and deleting images.
The Guardian 10 AUG 10
In one, reported by the National Union of Journalists on its website, Hackney Gazette photographer Carmen Valino claimed to have been forced to hand over her camera while taking pictures of a crime scene.

She was standing outside the police cordon and identified herself as a journalist by showed her press card.

But a police sergeant told her she was disrupting an investigation and demanded that she give him her camera. When she protested, she said he grabbed her wrist and pulled out his handcuffs.
She immediately handed him her camera. He then left for five minutes before coming back, took Valino inside the cordon and asked her to show him the images, which he deleted. Valino was told that she could come back in a few hours to photograph the scene.

In a second incident, reported by the BBC, freelance news photographer Paul King had his camera seized by a police traffic officer after taking pictures of a car crash in Wokingham, Berkshire
The images were later deleted, which King claimed cost him up to £400 in loss of earnings.

King, who has 25 years' experience as a photojournalist, has made a formal complaint to the police, arguing that he was acting within the law.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:56 am
by PI & GI
iM SORRY, BUT this is stupid, yes he had no 'powers' to do this , its about time the goverment passed a bill so that anyone taking photos of a crime scene in this manner can get officiallywarned and then if no joy the nick em, civil liberties and journalistic freedom my arse. lol

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:25 pm
by typecastboy
In the Met, we have now lost our section 44 powers. Section 43 is still in place, but Section 44 has gone. Is this a country-wide thing or just us?

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:54 pm
by PCSO Mickyboy
still have it i think lol

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:50 pm
by Sgt87
It's not difficult to understand. We do not have the power to delete photos. With journalists, providing that they are not obstructing an investigation or endangering themselves (or others) then they should be left to crack on..... even then we still don't have a power to delete photo's. Whilst it may seem inappropriate for them to be taking photo's, it will be down to editorial discretion if pictures get published. For the MPS the directions around photogs have been quite clearly communicated. Of all people I would not expect to see getting it wrong is a supervisor!

If I am controlling a scene and the press arrive I will usually take the time to speak to them to ensure that they can get their pictures. I have in the past set up an area for the media so that they are not milling around all over the place or encroaching on the scene. Most photog's know the law and do not want to get arrested. Unfortunately some officers don't know the law and seek to use the threat of arrest as leverage to encourage a person not to do an activity which is plainly lawful.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:52 pm
by PCSO Mickyboy
Sgt87 wrote:It's not difficult to understand. We do not have the power to delete photos. With journalists, providing that they are not obstructing an investigation or endangering themselves (or others) then they should be left to crack on..... even then we still don't have a power to delete photo's. Whilst it may seem inappropriate for them to be taking photo's, it will be down to editorial discretion if pictures get published. For the MPS the directions around photogs have been quite clearly communicated. Of all people I would not expect to see getting it wrong is a supervisor!

If I am controlling a scene and the press arrive I will usually take the time to speak to them to ensure that they can get their pictures. I have in the past set up an area for the media so that they are not milling around all over the place or encroaching on the scene. Most photog's know the law and do not want to get arrested. Unfortunately some officers don't know the law and seek to use the threat of arrest as leverage to encourage a person not to do an activity which is plainly lawful.

i hear ya and it makes me cringe

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:44 pm
by typecastboy
Sgt87 wrote:It's not difficult to understand. We do not have the power to delete photos. With journalists, providing that they are not obstructing an investigation or endangering themselves (or others) then they should be left to crack on..... even then we still don't have a power to delete photo's. Whilst it may seem inappropriate for them to be taking photo's, it will be down to editorial discretion if pictures get published. For the MPS the directions around photogs have been quite clearly communicated. Of all people I would not expect to see getting it wrong is a supervisor!

If I am controlling a scene and the press arrive I will usually take the time to speak to them to ensure that they can get their pictures. I have in the past set up an area for the media so that they are not milling around all over the place or encroaching on the scene. Most photog's know the law and do not want to get arrested. Unfortunately some officers don't know the law and seek to use the threat of arrest as leverage to encourage a person not to do an activity which is plainly lawful.
The threat of arrest is an often over-used threat by many officers, not just in an instance like this, but especially with section 5. As Sgt87 states, the laws are quite simple on this. We (Met), have a whole chapter in our white notes during training on this very thing. I know the rules, and have had to adhere to these very rules on a couple of occasions.

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:49 pm
by Big-Si
Recently I was on holiday and spent the evening out taking some pictures in a small seaside village. There were a lot of young families about and I was shooting landscape images, someone actually accused me of being a paedophile as a single male with a DSLR.
Shortly after Police arrived and stop checked me, the PC stated that they would seize my camera equipment and cf cards unless they let me view them. I asked under what powers and was told I was now obstructing them the PC blustered erm Sec 44.
After I reminded them of what Sec 44 actually was I said you're free to see the images however you are not allowed to delete them and if you do I will bring litigation against the force for criminal damage and also civil litigation for loss of earnings (I now have my own business as a pro photgrapher)
The other PC was more than polite, checked me and said you're free to carry on.
As stated earlier it seems to be a lack of training

Re: photographer is quizzed by police

Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:35 am
by Islandbeat
The journalists are using any bit of easy bait to have a free dig at pcso's in particular, I don't mind informative journalism or constructive criticism but these reports are being turned into anti pcso messages rather than honest reporting.
At the end of the day any law abiding citizen should be comfortable having a conversation with a pc/pcso about what they are taking pictures of, after all if they have nothing to hide, it's a couple of moments of their time at the most.
In the security sensitive times we find ourselves in some people may have to give a bit of information to police, so what?
Better that than have a major devastating terrorist attack against us and someone retrospectively wish they had asked the questions, or a paedophile take pictures of local kids for their own gratification. I wouldn't like to live with the consequences of either if had not taken action as a pcso.