PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

PCSO stuff ONLY: Burning issues, high profile questions or cases that have been highlighted in national or local news, let's talk about them IN HERE! A link to the item would be great where possible.

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AussiePCSO
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PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by AussiePCSO » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:03 pm

Hi all

I am currently in training, and start in August :slwoot: cant wait!

Anyway, we learnt about PND's last week, and I would like to ask the following questions.

Do you issue PND/FPN's, if so how often?
If you dont issue them often, why?
What is your stations unwritten policy on handing them out? Do you follow this?
Who do you give them to, specific incidents, or anytime you see any kind of incident?

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steve67
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by steve67 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:30 pm

seat belts
unnecessary/willful obstructio
using prohibited vehicle on a restricted road
regards

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by sc24 » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:31 pm

steve67 wrote:seat belts
unnecessary/willful obstructio
using prohibited vehicle on a restricted road
regards
seat belts, thought that was Police only esp since they went up to £60.

Hope the training is going well. I only issue tickets or PNDs as a last resort, after all our role is about Education not enforcement, esp in a quiet village not good to upset the locals too much. Your 'real' training starts when you hit the streets lol
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by tnpmonkey » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:00 pm

in Kent a PCSO can only issue one for

Dog fouling
Cycling on a pavement
(sometimes fly posting but that never happens, well the above dont either)

Thats it

No-one I know has ever issued a PND

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by r_brotheridge » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:26 pm

we can issue for quite a few offences to be honest, Section 5 Public order being the most common one.

i've only issued a couple since i moved to the British Transport Police mostly because there are other ways of dealing with things, i think enforcement goes against what pcso's are here for

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by CIDB » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:40 pm

I work on a retail crime unit, Have done since 2003. and I have given out a number of tickets. Crime Dam and section five POA. also, Drinking in a designated public area, Dropping litter, Cycling on a footpath, ect.

And I think as we are in the POLICE it is our job to enforce law when required.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by typecastboy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:47 pm

I was trained in them, never given one out in 18 months. I've issued one Council FPN for littering, but that was a different form than trained in. A better, more simplified version.
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by anna-louise » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:05 am

I give out the odd one for cycling on a footpath, but thats about it.

We can issue them for refusal to stop drinking in a designated place sec 5, trespass on a railway and a couple of fire work offences.

I've come close to issuing sec 5 ones on a few occasions but an officer has always turned up and taken over...detection rates count for them.

I've also come close to issuing a couple of refusal to surrender alcohol but decided against as the person had been drinking...

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by Big Brother » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:58 am

I've issued a few, mainly for section 5.

I've done some for people I've caught urinating in the street in front of people, 2 to some lads who got caught making nuisance phone calls to the 999 controllers and several section 5's to people trespassing on school site who've been abusive to school staff when asked to leave.

Not many people at our nick issue them, I think out of everyone, cops included I've issued the most. I don't know why this is, as long as the evidence is there they are a very quick and efficient way of dealing with something, and especially for PCSOs as we can't summons to court.

I issue them when it's appropriate, sometimes I give people a chance, other times I explain the alternative and that because of their actions they've given me no choice but to prosecute, and they can pick a PND or court.
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by PI & GI » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:51 pm

CIDB wrote:I work on a retail crime unit, Have done since 2003. and I have given out a number of tickets. Crime Dam and section five POA. also, Drinking in a designated public area, Dropping litter, Cycling on a footpath, ect.

And I think as we are in the POLICE it is our job to enforce law when required.
WELL SAID, I personally dont do the job to sit around and look pretty like mr brotheridge stated, what is a power to detain, if thats not enforncement? ! lol what is sect 59 , yes i know our role is mostly 'engagement' but we do also have an enforcement role whatever end of the scale, we are here as pcsos to enforce law to reduce asb, not to sit and watch! :slhi: :slra:
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by tnpmonkey » Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:53 pm

sounds like most forces can issue for more than the 3 crap things Kent can

If PCSOs are staying, for heavens sake sort out the same powers !

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by overthinker1977 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:50 pm

Lancs have hardly any powers and we don't do much 'enforcing' except on low level ASB.
Litter, cycling on footpath and 59 warnings/seizure
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by glen13 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:07 am

Good luck with the training!

I've been a PCSO for 4 years now and the only tickets I've issued are for vehicle obstruction. As someone wrote earlier, it's about educating them rather than p***ing then off, remember you will probably see that person on a regular basis as a beat officer. :slsm: :slsm: :slsm:

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by the dark lord » Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:41 pm

Been a PCSO for 18months, never come close to issuing a fixed Penalty, though my books do make regular appearances for persuasion purposes. The nearest i have come is for railway trespass but the bloke grovelled and promised not to do it again, and observations by the person whose garden he was using to get onto the railway (and who reported the problem to us) has said there have been no further problems and for done dickhead that said he wanted his copy of his stop account form then threw it on the floor.

Of the 25+ pcsos on our area nobody has ever issued a penalty ticket... However that said we are given no pressure to do it, neighboring divisions are given monthly targets. Some officers in our area are council ticket trained, however no further officers will be trained.

The PCSOs in our force are given all the available powers bar three.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by steve999 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:46 pm

:slwo: The main difference is that PCs are given targets, PCSOs are not. If management brought in the same thought process for both sets of officers then I am sure for the amount of time PCSOs are out on the street, they would give out twice as many tickets as PCs.

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