PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

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typecastboy
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by typecastboy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:27 am

steve999 wrote:
Dirrty wrote:wow! is Humberside the only force with set targets of 1 PND and 2 FPN's a month? if we don't meet out targets and don't have a reasonable excuse we have a negative PDR entry which will reflect on out ability to get another job within the civilian side of the force or even if we apply to join the reg's, i'm fecked as i haven't met the target for months now as i don't believe in issuing the old fella an FPN for cycling on the footpath at a pace slower then foot speed and you can never grab those tools going stupid fast for fear of causing them injury. Don't mind doing the section 5 or crim dam PND's though but they're as rare as rocking horse poo.
:slwo: All forces should have targets for all officers, that way officers will issue them. Are you telling me that you can walk for 6hrs and not give someone a ticket. PCSOs are part of the police family so they should enforce the law.
Yes quite easily. I was on SNT course all week, but worked on Saturday and Sunday. I had absolutely nothing to put on the work return, no stops, tickets, merlins, crimints, absolutely nothing, so yes, you can walk around all day and have nothing to put down. Targets are stupid, because it encourages officers to ticket where they wouldn't have. That's being a Jobsworth. You can still have a work return, so it can be noted what you do. Obviously, if you had nothing in 3 months, there's obviously a problem, but forcing you to complete a certain amount per day or per week, is just stupid.
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by tnpmonkey » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:57 pm

if Kent had the full range then I would issue some.

I have a couple of Universities on/near my patch which means 4-6 cars per household, every road is littered with double parking, pavement parking, obstructions etc.

Traffic wardens might venture to the estates once a month, if I could issue tickets for the above, I could easy do 30 a day and be a local hero. I would if I could.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by steve999 » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:46 pm

:slwo: This is due to deregulation, councils had to apply for this and all the tickets wardens give out the money goes to the local council. All tickets given out by PCs go to the government. The more tickets wardens give out, the more money the council make.

Police have no powers to issue these tickets and that is why there are so many complaints to the police regarding parking outside schools.

If PCSOs wages are paid 50/50 by police & council I can't see why PCSOs can't be given warden powers, as well, to combat all the problems for their area ie school parking, littering, dog fouling, etc. Our local council employ 12 wardens to cover the whole district, it is a nightmare !!!

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by typecastboy » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:29 pm

steve999 wrote::slwo: This is due to deregulation, councils had to apply for this and all the tickets wardens give out the money goes to the local council. All tickets given out by PCs go to the government. The more tickets wardens give out, the more money the council make.

Police have no powers to issue these tickets and that is why there are so many complaints to the police regarding parking outside schools.

If PCSOs wages are paid 50/50 by police & council I can't see why PCSOs can't be given warden powers, as well, to combat all the problems for their area ie school parking, littering, dog fouling, etc. Our local council employ 12 wardens to cover the whole district, it is a nightmare !!!
We have new Council FPNs now, they are much simpler. They are A5 in size. As you quite rightly say, the money goes to the Council. We can give them for nuisance parking, littering, dog fouling etc etc.
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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by steve999 » Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:12 pm

[/quote]We have new Council FPNs now, they are much simpler. They are A5 in size. As you quite rightly say, the money goes to the Council. We can give them for nuisance parking, littering, dog fouling etc etc.[/quote]

:slwo: Remind me, are you paid 100% or 50/50 by council or police. Our force looked at it but there was a big problem regarding who got the cash etc, so it was never carried through.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by Dirrty » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:50 pm

steve999 wrote::slwo: tpmonkey loves enforcing the law and catching criminals, should he not be doing that!!

If you believe you should not be enforcing the law then your role could be carried out by the Street Wardens at a fraction of the cost.

/clip
it appears you have over analysed what i have written, i said i don't mind issuing deserving FPNs, in Humberside we can issue all the FPN's/PND's including the local authority ones for dog poo/litter but people aren't stupid they know that and avoid you. people know that we're not likely to try and tackle some one cycling on the footpath at full pelt due to wanting to keep our bones intact or if i do drag him off if i injure him i'm looking at the sack. until i got this job i never even knew it was an actual offence to cycle on the footpath i just thought it was sumat that was frowned upon why should it be different for everyone else? in the middle of an estate where there is no road you can't get a ticket for cycling on the footpath.

my job role is hi-viz, but we have the unfortunate contradiction of the police pledge (Humberside are still keeping its ethos despite the government drop) how can we be 80% hi-viz while sat in some ones house discussing crime prevention after a burglary or sorting neighbour disputes that ended in a fight the night before? also my job role says none confrontational how is challenging and issuing a section 5 ticket for some one kicking of in the street none confrontational?

the whole PCSO role needs a rewrite, it's been around for long enough for even the SMT and CC to see that there are too many limitations and contradictions never mind the folk actually on the ground.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by falkor » Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:16 pm

the question is out of the 15 possible offences (38k) that you can issue a PND for ........

A) how many of the 15 categories have you issued for?

B) has your supervision supported you over the cases you issued for?

C) have your colleagues supported you over the cases you issued for?

D) did you find it easy or hard to "complete" the tickets that are 'recordable'? what was involved?

can you answer any of these A _D? it would help other site members I am sure! :slwoot:

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by Big Brother » Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:22 pm

A)Causing harassment alarm (6 tickets in all) AND false alarm to the fire brigade (1)
B)Yes, completely.
C)Yes, completely.
D)Easy. Complete the ticket as usual, fill out a crime report and get a cop to put their name to it. credit for the ticket goes to me, the crime is "detected" by the cop. I was the first to try it and it worked.
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Re: PND's, attend a DRUGLINK course

Post by falkor » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:07 pm

so since 2011

All persons issued with a Penalty Notice for Disorder (PND), in or out of custody, for:
* Drunk and disorderly * Drunk and incapable * Section 5 Public Order offences where alcohol or cannabis use is an aggravating factor * Cannabis possession (but see Policing Offences of Cannabis Possession Guidance, as a Cannabis Warning should be considered as the first disposal),
who have not previously attended a DRUGLINK course, will now be offered the opportunity to participate in the scheme and in doing so reduce the amount payable on a PND from £90 to £45 with the lower payment being made directly to DRUGLINK to fund the scheme.

anybody come across this?

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by powdermonkey » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:32 pm

falkor,

No, not seen that. However you can't really issue a PND to some one who is so drunk that they're deemed incapable or even drunk & disorderly, surely. If they're that drunk how can they agree to a PND, know what they're signing and understand the caution? Best to get them locked up if they won't sod off home quickly.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by falkor » Fri Sep 09, 2016 7:00 pm

:D good point PM

I notice it says 'in or out of custody,' so bearing in mind your point, maybe this is mainly for when they are being released from custody? :slch2:

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Re: PND's, Lots of Questions, Honest Answers Please!

Post by powdermonkey » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:31 pm

falkor,

Yep. In which case it still wouldn't be a PCSO issuing the PND.

On the subject of custody and I imagine this differs from force to force, at WYP the force policy is that PCSO's are not allowed in the custody suite (something to do with H & S I believe) and some custody Sgts have been quite rude when one has been in (the odd Sgt is fine which shows a variance in attitude even within one force!). For example, a PCSO was sent to collect medication and on arriving in custody told me he was looked at like something the cat had vomited up, and the Sgt said "what are you doing here?", not "Can I help you?" This week there was a death in custody and guess who they turned to for scene guarding? Sorry, no prizes for saying PCSO.

Whilst I'm on a rant, here's another thing. Confrontational or not? I went to deal with a drunk fast asleep in McDonalds and refusing to leave. I went because there was no one else answering the shout and I was in the town centre on my way back to the nick. The drunk is a well known (but not lovable) character who always gets abusive and violent when confronted. He's usually so drunk he can barely stand up let alone walk or fight. I've heard calls about him before and when a PC responds, you'll hear another offering to back them up. Not so for me! And PC's, remember, have the Gucci kit of CS, baton & cuffs plus some also have Taser. So, the next time some plod whines about PCSO's being useless I'll use that job as an example and tell him to stick it up his arse, with his baton, without the benefit of lube. Who is it that walks around alone at night with no Gucci kit and who is it double crews with the kit in a vehicle?

Yep, I've had a bad week. Yep, if I could tell them to stick the job, I would. Only the mortgage keeps me here. 3 & half years to go . .tick tock . . tick tock.

Ok, I've calmed down. Has Unison in your force told you the results of the survey about PCSO's getting CS or Pava? Looks like PCSO's across the UK are in favour. I can't decide which I'd rather have, cuffs or a spray. Trouble is, either one pushes us more towards being a police officer and further away from community support. I think a long serious look at what we're deployed to is needed but I doubt it will happen. We are being used as replacements for police officers and I'm spending more and more time call handling. Yes, it helps the shift go quickly but it pulls me away from what I see as my role - support, reassurance etc. It won't change any time soon. Despite the force recruiting PCSO's we've been told our division has too many. Seems strange considering in 2 years we've lost 3, and another is about to go. The problem is exacerbated at the moment by having 2 on long term sick and one about to go on mat leave (currently on light duties so office bound; effectively already gone. I've also ended up with another area to cover due the long term sicknesses but can I get a car to help me cover the jobs? Can I f***. Something has to give, whether it's less POPPI visits, failed response times, more logs delayed or a big reduction in routine visibility patrol.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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