PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

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tonkertoy
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PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by tonkertoy » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:32 pm

Time the Home Office & the NPIA, undertake a major review of PCSO's, give us adequate Power's, PPE, additonal training, more pay, better uniform's. Just a thought why not introduce a New Rank of Constable !!, maybe call us Community Police Constable's, full PPE etc.... All PCSO's would move in to the New Rank !!!!
Perhap's I should apply to be a Police & Crime Commissioner !!!!!!!


http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/c ... -31677129/

Crowd attack Llanrwst pub doormen for helping lone, woman PCSO
Aug 23 2012 by Alex Hickey, North Wales Weekly News

AN investigation has been launched after two doormen were kicked and punched by a crowd of drunks for going to the aid of a lone woman PCSO.

The security staff from the Llywelyn pub, Llanrwst – formerly the Albion Hotel – became concerned for the safety of the police community support officer after a crowd of onlookers began to manhandle her when she intervened in an argument between a man and a woman.

The attack took place at around 10.30pm on Saturday as hundreds of revellers descended on the market town following the Llanrwst Show.

Police reinforcement arrived minutes later to break up the disturbance and officers then ordered four pubs on the town square to close their doors to new customers on the night.

No arrests were made but North Wales Police will now fully probe the circumstances surrounding the disorder.

The owner of the Llywelyn, Shirley Longley and its manager Alizia Black, are unhappy that a woman officer was deployed on her own in the town square on the “busiest night of the year”.

They are also disappointed at the “over-reaction” of one officer in the aftermath of the attack.

Ms Black said: “The whole town was really busy from the show. There were hundreds of people out on the street. We opened at 9pm but had already closed our doors at 10.20pm because we had reached our capacity.

“There were people queuing up to get in but there were crowds of people all over the streets. Our doormen saw the PCSO out on her own and she was trying to stop a man from hitting a woman but some in the crowds were diving over and trying to grab her.

“They went over to help her and people just started raining kicks and punches down on them.”

The PCSO managed to call for back-up and three police cars arrived minutes later to break up the crowd.

Conwy and Denbighshire rural district inspector Gary Kelly said: “A full investigation is currently being carried out and we are speaking to all parties concerned.”

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Bert Moffat
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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:16 pm

tonkertoy wrote: Just a thought why not introduce a New Rank of Constable !!, maybe call us Community Police Constable's
What's new about the rank of Constable?

tonkertoy
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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by tonkertoy » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:29 pm

COMMUNITY CONSTABLE !!!!!!!! Maybe replace / upgrade / promote ??? PCSO's to a SWORN Officer, but keep them in the Communities !! No more crap of BLUNKETTS BOBBIES !! CHIMPS !!! etc....

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Bert Moffat
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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:34 pm

But isn't the Home Office/coalition doing exactly the opposite and cutting back?

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by tonkertoy » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:43 pm

Election's Coming Soon !! Money will be thrown around then, no more cut's, it will be Spend, Spend, Spend !!

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by ninjamonk » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:50 pm

I know there will be criticism regarding this post but i totally agree Tonkertoy

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Bert Moffat
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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:58 pm

But there is no money, and I think it's only going to get worse.

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by bluecopper » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:27 pm

Yup, me too. For the first time in my life, I think I shall be voting labour. It's gonna hurt, but I know they have a more common sense approach to policing, even if they do cripple the country financially *LOL

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by ninjamonk » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:40 pm

Possibly as i expect our contracts will change, well for those that are on contracts. They will have to utlilise us some how, as we are a lot of uniform on the streets that can do a lot more for less. My force are recruiting two lots of pcso's next year so not all is bad.

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by xbob89 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:53 pm

tonkertoy wrote:Time the Home Office & the NPIA, undertake a major review of PCSO's, give us adequate Power's, PPE, additonal training, more pay, better uniform's. Just a thought why not introduce a New Rank of Constable !!, maybe call us Community Police Constable's, full PPE etc.... All PCSO's would move in to the New Rank !!!!
Perhap's I should apply to be a Police & Crime Commissioner !!!!!!!


http://www.northwalesweeklynews.co.uk/c ... -31677129/

Crowd attack Llanrwst pub doormen for helping lone, woman PCSO
Aug 23 2012 by Alex Hickey, North Wales Weekly News

AN investigation has been launched after two doormen were kicked and punched by a crowd of drunks for going to the aid of a lone woman PCSO.

The security staff from the Llywelyn pub, Llanrwst – formerly the Albion Hotel – became concerned for the safety of the police community support officer after a crowd of onlookers began to manhandle her when she intervened in an argument between a man and a woman.

The attack took place at around 10.30pm on Saturday as hundreds of revellers descended on the market town following the Llanrwst Show.

Police reinforcement arrived minutes later to break up the disturbance and officers then ordered four pubs on the town square to close their doors to new customers on the night.

No arrests were made but North Wales Police will now fully probe the circumstances surrounding the disorder.

The owner of the Llywelyn, Shirley Longley and its manager Alizia Black, are unhappy that a woman officer was deployed on her own in the town square on the “busiest night of the year”.

They are also disappointed at the “over-reaction” of one officer in the aftermath of the attack.

Ms Black said: “The whole town was really busy from the show. There were hundreds of people out on the street. We opened at 9pm but had already closed our doors at 10.20pm because we had reached our capacity.

“There were people queuing up to get in but there were crowds of people all over the streets. Our doormen saw the PCSO out on her own and she was trying to stop a man from hitting a woman but some in the crowds were diving over and trying to grab her.

“They went over to help her and people just started raining kicks and punches down on them.”

The PCSO managed to call for back-up and three police cars arrived minutes later to break up the crowd.

Conwy and Denbighshire rural district inspector Gary Kelly said: “A full investigation is currently being carried out and we are speaking to all parties concerned.”
Do you really think that PPE and constable powers would have meant the situation would have been any different??
It was the doormen who were assaulted. Should they be given the same PPE etc?

The question I'd want answered is why are PCSOs being deployed at times and locations where their skills cant be used properly?

Tonkerboy, you might be ready for the role to change as you have described but I reckon that not every PCSO wants to be a cop. With the extra PPE, power etc comes more responsibility AND more paperwork.
I think that to impose this role onto your colleagues would be extremely unfair.
Anyway, it aint gonna happen.....

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Marlon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:30 pm

tonkertoy wrote:Election's Coming Soon !! Money will be thrown around then, no more cut's, it will be Spend, Spend, Spend !!



What money? There are further cuts to come.

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Marlon » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:33 pm

tonkertoy wrote: Time the Home Office & the NPIA, undertake a major review of PCSO's, give us adequate Power's, PPE, additonal training, more pay, better uniform's. Just a thought why not introduce a New Rank of Constable !!, maybe call us Community Police Constable's, full PPE etc.... All PCSO's would move in to the New Rank !!!!
Perhap's I should apply to be a Police & Crime Commissioner !!!!!!!



How would you justify the above, when in some areas of the country, you could give PCSOs more powers, PPE, more training, remove their rights to take industrial action - and actually reduce their pay by making them probationer Constables?

(Potentially, in a few years time, a PC's starting wage could be reduced lower than it is now, if the relevant Winsor Part 2 recommendation is adopted.)

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by Victor » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:33 pm

Bert Moffat wrote:But there is no money, and I think it's only going to get worse.
If you pay peanut, you only get a monkey, I like banana :sloop:

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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by lookalikecop » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:52 am

Non confrontational my arse!! dealing with ASB is confrontational. I think cutting PCSO's and Constables is the wrong way, it will fall flat on its face when the crime figures go sky high and the locals start complaining as no police officer has come out to stop the crime!!! Yes no one as 1 major job will take the officers out of action.

True or not true is the question ...
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Re: PCSO's Non-Confrontational !! WHAT A JOKE !!

Post by JimmyRiddle » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:05 am

xbob89 wrote:Do you really think that PPE and constable powers would have meant the situation would have been any different??
It was the doormen who were assaulted. Should they be given the same PPE etc?
Possibly, the visual threat of the PPE may have helped. Would it also have been reasonable to CS the whole crowd if they were surrounding and "manhandling" her? I'd say so.

Also, by your logic, no PPE for anyone would have helped here. So why don't we take off all PPE for all Constables? Constables still get assaulted despite all sorts of PPE.
xbob89 wrote:The question I'd want answered is why are PCSOs being deployed at times and locations where their skills cant be used properly?
She was using her skills properly - the ability to talk to people like human beings. Unfortunately, this doesn't always work in these situations, and the nicey-nicey approach doesn't do much. She should call a PC down to 'sort it out' by resulting the job as 'no offences' despite the variety of offences which have occurred.
xbob89 wrote:Tonkerboy, you might be ready for the role to change as you have described but I reckon that not every PCSO wants to be a cop. With the extra PPE, power etc comes more responsibility AND more paperwork.
Paperwork yes, responsibility no, not with the standards I've seen and we all have been conditioned to ignore.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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