PCSO's need more PPE !!

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xbob89
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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by xbob89 » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:13 pm

JimmyRiddle wrote:
xbob89 wrote:BC, you're a MET PCSO?
Do you have the power to use force to detain?
Just wondering....
That seems like a jibe as I don't think the Met does (not many do). But under S3CLA1967 you can use reasonable force for the 'prevention of crime'. Making off when detained is a crime for example, common assault in order to prevent your or another's lawful apprehension is also. Hell, that's even INDICTABLE so a PCSO could even citizen's arrest for it OH MY GOD...

Anyway, we've had this argument so much over the years:

1) I'm not saying full PPE would solve every problem, as it clearly doesn't. What I am saying is that it would dramatically reduce the instances of PCSOs getting out of their depth, assaulted or even threatened as people react to what they see on your belt (or lack of it).

2) Those who don't want PPE may well work in a leafy suburb where the most confrontational situation you come across is a duck with a really bad attitude, or perhaps are happy with the ridiculously small amount of work PCSOs are allowed to do?

3) Our local criminals will often kick off on our local BTP PCSOs thinking they're the same as us, but then come back with their tail between their legs after getting locked up by said PCSO.

Nope...not a jibe....just an honest question.

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bluecopper
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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by bluecopper » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:14 pm

Yes, Met PCSOs have the power to detain using reasonable force of which I and virtually every colleague that I know, have used many many times.

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Gualsa » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:44 am

JimmyRiddle wrote:

2) Those who don't want PPE may well work in a leafy suburb where the most confrontational situation you come across is a duck with a really bad attitude, or perhaps are happy with the ridiculously small amount of work PCSOs are allowed to do?
I fall under this category and have had an angry goose come after me :slww: . However, when you say "small amount of work we are allowed to do" I just wanted to point out that I am always extremely busy. You have to remember that in quieter areas the geographical area is usually really large and the teams are small so everyone is stretched. I can spend 3 hrs on one job just because of the traveling and having to do everything myself.

I do believe strongly that PCSOs working in city centres and areas with high crime/ASB should have more PPE. It could be arranged on a local level and there is no need for a wage difference or powers of arrest. Just a bit more training. I can see that some PCSOs may get a bit "gung ho" and throw themselves into dangerous situations but we have all been taught to risk assess so it would be a judgement call.

It would also enable PCSOs to assist PCs better with difficult arrests. However, there would have to be strict protocols in place to prevent PPE empowered PCSOs from being misused by dispatch and sent to unsuitable jobs which would take them off the street.

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Arthur ASCII
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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Arthur ASCII » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:47 pm

JimmyRiddle wrote:
2) Those who don't want PPE may well work in a leafy suburb where the most confrontational situation you come across is a duck with a really bad attitude, or perhaps are happy with the ridiculously small amount of work PCSOs are allowed to do?
Neither of the above, and I STILL don't want PPE. I'm confident in my abilities and have adequate back-up if required.
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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Marlon » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:43 am

Gualsa wrote: PCSOs working in city centres and areas with high crime/ASB should have more PPE. It could be arranged on a local level and there is no need for a wage difference or powers of arrest. Just a bit more training.

I think such an arrangement would break down very quickly: what if you have to travel through such areas ^ to get to your nice quiet, leafy suburb or village? You still risk coming across the more confrontational incidents, but not being able to deal with them in the same way as your colleague performing the same role.

Unfairness in the workplace generally creates bad feeling and/or claims against the employer.

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Gualsa
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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Gualsa » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:39 pm

Yes of course Marlon. I don't think I explained that properly. What I meant by "local level" was more force by force as working environment for PCSOs in the Met and West Midlands police differs hugely from that of e.g. Suffolk and Cumbria.

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by jay1 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:26 am

Yep
We have a fraction of the Manpower :slzip:

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Gualsa » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:23 pm

jay1 wrote:Yep
We have a fraction of the Manpower :slzip:
Which is why we learn to resolve most situations on our own without calling back up :slww:

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by jay1 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:18 am

Gualsa wrote:
jay1 wrote:Yep
We have a fraction of the Manpower :slzip:
Which is why we learn to resolve most situations on our own without calling back up :slww:
Very true or we ARE the back up :slzip:

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by snakeywakey » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:12 am

I've studied self defence for Y
Years and my own self awareness borders on paranoia. Very hard to get the drop on me bug possible. Short of recieving a fully armoured environment suit Ppe will not help. Look out for people making a beeline for you, staring at you or double glancing at you. Never let anyone within arms reach whom you don't know without watching them like a hawk. Not fool proof but it helps.

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by pieman71 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:13 am

It is time a review was conducted, I feel the issuing of handcuffs can not be too far away. Too many Pcso`s being injured on duty how long can they continue to say this is a non confrontational role. I hear of Pcso being assulted on a weekly bases. it just not good enough.

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:02 pm

I hear of cops getting assaulted on a daily basis, and they have PPE.

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Re: PCSO's need more PPE !!

Post by JimmyRiddle » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:01 am

Bert Moffat wrote:I hear of cops getting assaulted on a daily basis, and they have PPE.
I know it's a long time ago, but I missed this. The PPE is a huge deterrent which you can't quantify. It also means that they get assaulted proportionally less, and would you rather have nothing or to give yourself an advantage? It's not as if criminals always play fair isn't it? How many offensive weapons convictions are recorded each year? All people that were giving themselves the advantage unfairly?
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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