Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

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Bert Moffat
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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:05 pm

It's not me that needs a hug ta, it's the grumps on here that cannot take a straight answer.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by Victor » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:16 pm

Dying… Our team use to be have seven officers, now just two left... :(

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by powdermonkey » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:08 pm

What's happened to tonkertoy's OP? Have I lost it or has it been amended/removed?
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:13 pm

He/she has edited it....

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by the dark lord » Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:17 pm

Rumors abound at our place that the all Police officers will soon be removed from the SNT and will go to a larger reformed response team that will do everything, respond, appointments, arrests, warrants, offender checks etc. The officers will take with them the lions share of IT, the cars and equipment.


The SNT will consist of a couple of sgts and the PCSOs.


Quite how that will work with the police officers on part time/flextime i dont know and it is just a rumor.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by Bert Moffat » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:51 pm

Rumours?

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by powdermonkey » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:00 pm

dark lord,

It looks like they might not be rumours if your force is thinking along the same lines as mine. At yesterday's morning briefing we were told that a likely move was to merge response & NPT into one "patrol group". On paper at least there would be separate response & NPT officers but, should one be short staffed due to annual leave etc, then officers would be extracted from the other to make up the shortfall.

We currently work 7 on 4 off 7 on 3 off but a shift change discussed by senior management is to change to 6 on 4 off. Apparently this was worked some years ago & is quite popular. For response officers it means a set consists of 2 earlies, 2 lates & 2 nights. We don't yet know if NPT police officers would also do that. It could cause problems as we PCSO's don't work nights so what the work around would be, to avoid starting or finishing at different times to police colleagues, wasn't discussed. 6 on 4 off would no doubt result in longer shifts and mean finishing at 2 or even 3 a.m. into rest days, effectively losing most of your first rest day. At the moment we finish the last shift of a set at 11 p.m.

There's no more acting up for anyone seeking promotion because of the cuts & we've been told that more cuts are on the way as the force hasn't met its targets for the cuts so far. Meanwhile, we've been told we're getting Samsung tablets to replace our notebooks and to act as mobile phones, provide access to emails etc etc. Can't help thinking it's not the right time to be buying them when we're making cuts. However, that's common sense and I'm sure there's something in force regs about using common sense being a disciplinary offence . . .
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by the dark lord » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:23 pm

Bert Moffat wrote:Rumours?

Americaized Spull Chicker....


Ignore once, Change All - Wrong Choice.

powdermonkey wrote:dark lord,

It looks like they might not be rumours if your force is thinking along the same lines as mine. At yesterday's morning briefing we were told that a likely move was to merge response & NPT into one "patrol group". On paper at least there would be separate response & NPT officers but, should one be short staffed due to annual leave etc, then officers would be extracted from the other to make up the shortfall.

We currently work 7 on 4 off 7 on 3 off but a shift change discussed by senior management is to change to 6 on 4 off. Apparently this was worked some years ago & is quite popular. For response officers it means a set consists of 2 earlies, 2 lates & 2 nights. We don't yet know if NPT police officers would also do that. It could cause problems as we PCSO's don't work nights so what the work around would be, to avoid starting or finishing at different times to police colleagues, wasn't discussed. 6 on 4 off would no doubt result in longer shifts and mean finishing at 2 or even 3 a.m. into rest days, effectively losing most of your first rest day. At the moment we finish the last shift of a set at 11 p.m.

There's no more acting up for anyone seeking promotion because of the cuts & we've been told that more cuts are on the way as the force hasn't met its targets for the cuts so far. Meanwhile, we've been told we're getting Samsung tablets to replace our notebooks and to act as mobile phones, provide access to emails etc etc. Can't help thinking it's not the right time to be buying them when we're making cuts. However, that's common sense and I'm sure there's something in force regs about using common sense being a disciplinary offence . . .

Doesn't everything that happens start as a rumour, get denied, then happen?


I have wondered about tablets or pda's ever since I saw one of our council enforcement officers issuing tickets, making notes and taking photos on his. It seemed man enough for the job, but wasnt a consumer product adapted badly but a bespoke device made i think by symbol.
A tablet type device would be great, as long as it could have a keyboard attached. You could type statements on it, direct to files, use it to record contemp IVs, send and receive emails, look at PNC and print of stuff/tickets/search records etc.
I just hope it is more waterproof the the radios if we ever go down that route.

Our force in approx 2009 issued our Beat PCs Blackberries, however whilst they are still in use, or at least available for use, the force is withdrawing various functions from them, basically leaving them as phones & email.
Largely because nobody was using the other functions and it was costing too much to support.
Of course they may have seen more use had they given them to PCSOs.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by powdermonkey » Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:53 pm

dark lord,

When I started as a PCSO 2 years ago I was issued with a Blackberry but it was taken back only a few months later due to the cuts. Needless to say I had been giving the number as a means of contact to various people and all of a sudden it was obsolete! It only was only ever of use for phone calls or email as it would never connect to the 2 computer systems that would have helped me (Niche and Corvus) and I also intended using the camera on it to prove certain offences (no tax, obstruction etc) but it wouldn't recognise the in house photo downloading software & I wasn't allowed to use other sites such as dropbox. I had to email the photos to myself!
On a number of occasions since then we've been told not to use point to point because of the cost, & I'm sure you can imagine how limiting that restriction can be.
Now, despite all those cost saving exercises, the force hasn't met its targets for the cuts & there's more on the way, yet we're getting Samsung Notes (not Tabs as I originally thought). I believe it's the base model, 5 inch screen or so, but retails at about £200 I believe. You can bet that the force has paid the first price asked & not bartered for a deal! There must be a couple of thousand police officers & PCSO's getting them, so God knows what the cost will be when you add in internet connection & phone calls, and texts etc. We struggle to get uniform items replaced, there's little or no overtime despite being short staffed, no more acting Sgt's because of the cost. It feels like it's fur coat and no knickers.
The roll out of the Samsungs has been delayed due to glitches with the software. I'd argue that the 3 most common databases accessed by patrol officers (police or PCSO) would be PNC, Niche & Corvus - the last two have photos which would be of great use. Yet these are not to be the first ones that will be linked to the Samsungs. Seems crazy to me.
I'm 55 this year, the earliest age at which I can draw down my pension & I've never thought so much so often about going for early retirement.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by averagejoe90 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:34 pm

:slwo:
Last edited by averagejoe90 on Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by the dark lord » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:39 pm

averagejoe90 wrote:Neighbourhood Teams are changing in our Force with the new Operating Model. PC’s are being taken away and aligned with teams :(

Further updates.


Our division is having the number of subdivisions reduced again with a consequent saving on sgts and inspectors and probably answering the question of why a third of our sgts are currently temping.

Two years ago CID, Volume Crime (Burglary & Theft From), the 'appy team and the NPU were amalgamated. Each Subdivision had an INPT consisting of 1 DI, 1 Uniform Insp, 4 DS, 4 Uniform Sgt, 8-10 DCs and a motley collection of Constables and PCSOs. The response team, again one per subdivison had a Sgt and 4-6 PCs. There was also a response inspector for the division.

Augmenting this is a Domestic Violence, Vulnerable Adults, Child Protection Union working 7am - 10pm dealing with investigation work and a Prisioner Processing unit whom the idea was would deal wit prisioners brought in by all except the detectives (doesn't happen) and have no means of leaving the station. There are also things like the Traffic Units (5-7PCs at any one time) Dog section (0-5PCs at any one time) TAU, Horses etc covering all 11-12 divisions.

The new INPT staff were split into 4 shifts working between 7am and 3am on paper (soon amended to 7am - midnight). Response teams remained with the usual 5 shift system and are to deal with any incident requiring a blue light response or a 1 hour response time. Anything other than that should fall to the NPU.

The rumour is that the detectives will once again return to a central function within their own team and office leaving the two remaining NPUs with a larger area and a larger number of PCs.The rumour is that this is an intrim measure with majority of the PCs in NPU eventually moving to a new response team which will deal everything including the appointments in the form of a diary car as other forces do.

One thing that is clear is that a division that was 5 years ago parading 42-45 response officers over 4 subdivisions is struggling with 12-15 on a good day.

Should this all happen the NPUs will be left with PCSOs, a few admin staff, a small number of PCs - presumably those that can't for whatever reason work 24/7shifts and some form of supervision.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by bon » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:58 am

no supervision, workshy colleagues get away with murder, regularly sent on jobs which are way beyond the norm, often only one in station, rarely anyone out in their areas on foot.terrible state of affairs.Majority of colleagues don't give a *****, so difficult to compare notes. What do you do in these situations?

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by bon » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:00 am

no supervision, workshy colleagues get away with murder, regularly sent on jobs which are way beyond the norm, often only one in station, rarely anyone out in their areas on foot.terrible state of affairs.Majority of colleagues don't give a *****, so difficult to compare notes. What do you do in these situations? :sloop:

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by Big Brother » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:03 am

Just carry on.
You can refuse to goto jobs that you aren't trained for or that seem dangerous and you're on your own. As for workshy colleagues, you can either let them get on with it and sooner or later they may be caught out, or you can report them. It's your choice.
Big brother is watching you.

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Re: Is Neighbourhood Policing Dead or Dying !!

Post by powdermonkey » Mon Nov 17, 2014 5:41 pm

The issue of workshy colleagues is a difficult one to resolve as making a formal complaint to supervision could get you labelled as a snitch. The fact that a lazy colleague is by definition increasing everyone's workload and damaging PCSO's reputations in general whilst getting paid a reasonable wage seems to get overlooked. Many people will bitch and complain but it takes guts to stick your head above the parapet.

We have two team members, one a PC and one a PCSO who spend many shifts in a van together. Neither are on their respective areas which has a number of consequences. When a shout goes up for a PCSO on that particular area, there is often no reply because the other PCSO's are committed on another job. They also end up doing jobs that could easily have been passed to the absent PCSO. The PCSO covering the area where the PC is supposed to cover also suffers, in that he has reduced back up in case of something happening.

To add to this, the PC, who is a probationer, seems to think she's a response officer. So, instead of waiting for response to take a shout, and then offering if none are available, she takes the job pretty much straight away. Often she'll add that she's got PCSO so and so with her having "just picked her up for hot food".

One PCSO has become so fed up of this situation that he's had a quiet word with one of the sgts. The sgt promised to look into it but, as he's an APS, once he goes it'll probably happen again. The PCSO realises this and is so cheesed off that he's looking for another job. It'd be a shame if he goes because he's good at his job and has about 9 years' experience.

I put a large part of the blame for this happening on weak supervision. If the sgts listened to the radio and who's calling up for jobs and where, they'd soon realise that these two are taking the p*ss.

We all have lazy days where our get up and go has got up and gone; we can all have a day where it's nice to sit in a nice warm van for a change. I couldn't do it day after day as I'd get bored, I'd feel guilty about not doing my job and what colleagues would be saying about me. I've got pretty thick skin when it comes to being insulted but I'd be ashamed if people were calling me lazy.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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