Raised.threat level in UK

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Rekhmire
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Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Rekhmire » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:29 pm

Given the raised threat level and events in Canada, PCSO's are vulnerable on the streets

Time to raise the issue of improved PPE again.

Discuss.

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Bert Moffat
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Bert Moffat » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:41 pm

So do you want a gun?

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by powdermonkey » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:01 am

Rekhmire,

I can't think of any changes to PPE that would protect you from a terrorist attack, unless you want to walk around in a bomb disposal type suit and helmet as well as a ballistic vest.

It's more about being aware of any tensions in your community, assessing any intelligence you receive, and being vigilant regarding anyone taking an unduly close interest in you, your colleagues, and buildings/places that might be targets (shopping centres, transport hubs, police stations, army recruiting offices etc).

Rest assured though, if you are blown up in the course of your duty I'm sure a blue plaque will be placed to commemorate you. It'll be a plastic plaque, though, and will be covered in graffiti by the end of the week. :D
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Big Brother » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:22 am

We've been asking for more PPE, but for the reason that we are increasingly being sent to jobs involving conflict. A metal stick isn't going to help me against Johnny Al-Qaeda and his cronies.
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Rekhmire » Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:29 pm

Bert Moffat wrote:So do you want a gun?
Bit of a daft response. Of course not.

But as many other colleagues in my force have agreed, we currently have little or no way to defend ourrselves against any person who intends do do one of us harm. Intelligence has specifically identified threats towards members of the armed forces and police. Given the choice of targets, which would you choose, one who is equipped to at least try and keep a violent offender at distance, or one who has none of these. Or in Canada's incident, a soldier bearing only a ceremonial firearm? PCSO's are frontline officers who are more vulnerable to attack than other uniformed officers. Unison officers are in agreement with me on this.

God forbid it happens to any officer or member of the armed forces. We've already had one tragedy of this kind in the UK. I'm sure no chief officer wants to be the one to have it happen to one of his officers.

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Bert Moffat
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Bert Moffat » Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:56 pm

So of you think that was a "daft response" please explain what you think you should be in possession of in your role as a PCSO that would keep you safe against an active shooter such as that in Canada.

I don't see how PCSOs are any more vulnerable than uniformed officers, both are equally useless against a well-armed nutter.

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Rekhmire » Fri Oct 24, 2014 7:34 am

What we come back to here is the ridiculous notion that our role is in some way 'non-conflict'. Put a uniform with 'police' on and conflict will come your way at some point. What Unison officers mentioned to me was some form of legalised pepper spray. That would seem the best option. But you are right, that nothing would help in the case of someone being shot from a distance. That however, is not the type of attack that has been mentioned in the threat identified.

Solo patrol in key areas is also worth reviewing considering the threat level.

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by PI & GI » Fri Oct 24, 2014 2:21 pm

I want an all singing all dancing high vis panic button with a blue strobe light and megaphone that comes out of my hat. ..no wait.. i have a panic button but it wont help me if im in the sugar. lol
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Big Brother » Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:14 pm

I think this thread has devolved into 2 arguments.

The initial argument is that PCSOs should be issued with PPE to protect against terrorist attacks like that seen in Canada, and the murder of Drummer Rigby. This has, quite rightly been pointed out to be utterly pointless. Unless all officers, PCSOs included are issued with firearms then we are just as vulnerable to attack as any other member of police staff, including cops.

The second argument is that we should be issued with PPE full stop. I used to be of the belief that we didn't need it. However, over the years I'm not ashamed to admit my opinion has changed. Rightly or wrongly we are being sent to incidents and into situations that we were never envisioned to being sent to. . I went to a violent domestic the other week to backup a lone cop. If I'm going to be sent to jobs like that, in the job spec or not, I want PPE. I have just as much of a right, morally and in law to defend myself as a cop does.
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Bert Moffat
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Bert Moffat » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:14 pm

Big Brother wrote:I have just as much of a right, morally and in law to defend myself as a cop does.
Why?

Your statement makes no sense.

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by ninjamonk » Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:28 pm

Explain your reply Bert Moffat ?

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Bert Moffat
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Bert Moffat » Sat Oct 25, 2014 10:02 pm

I'll try...

Which law says that you have the right to defend yourself "as a cop does"?

What have morals got to do with it?

You are not a "cop".

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by powdermonkey » Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:28 pm

Big Brother,

Your comment has made me wonder a couple of things.

Firstly, do you not already have PPE? PPE includes a stab vest or are you thinking of items such as baton, CS spray? I'd always assumed that every PCSO has the same PPE of stab vest, slash resistant gloves and radio, and the only difference to that were BTP PCSO's who also have cuffs. Am I mistaken, or are there PCSO's out there who don't even have a stab vest?

Secondly, the bit about being going to a violent domestic. Were you sent there or did you choose to attend? My force will not send PCSO's to any incident that they know to be violent or have a good risk of becoming so. If a PCSO shouts up and says "I'll go", control will tell them not to.
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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by Rekhmire » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:17 pm

Still feeling safe out there?

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Re: Raised.threat level in UK

Post by powdermonkey » Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:47 pm

Rekhmire,

Yes, why shouldn't I? The chances of a terrorist incident where I work is very low. My biggest threat is from the bog standard scum bags.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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