Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

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powdermonkey
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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by powdermonkey » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:35 pm

If, God forbid, we end up seeing redundancies may I advise anyone seeking a new job not to bother registering with reed.co.uk

My dearest darling wife did so after being made redundant and provided the usual employment & qualifications history and said she'd be willing to commute about 10 miles each way. reed have ignored her work history and sent her adverts for all sorts of jobs many of them totally unsuitable and much more than 10 miles commute. The more humorous (to me anyway) were :

MI6 - despite us living up north & the job being in London. She'd make a useless spy; she can't stop talking for 5 minutes most days.

British Army - she's 58 for pity's sake. Not that she'd need a rifle. She just uses that look. The one that says "Really? Are you sure you want to do that?"

Construction company in Dubai. One hell of a commute! She didn't laugh when I said she'd look good in a burka. She just gave me that look. :sloop:
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:12 pm

Your right, most employment agencies are estate agents for human beings, just there to get you into any job so they can snap up their very high fee.... most are a total waste of time, some of the smaller (not very well known on the high street) can be ok, but you have to search them out.

Onto the subject i see the BBC news app and the Guardian had an article saying the Met were considering either getting rid of all their PCSO's or getting rid of around 1,000....... This is like death by a thousand cuts :slzip:

Have also been sent an article in the Telegraph that also mentions the Home Secretary has authroised the 43 police forces so they can recruit more volunteers.......oh yes, you know the way this is going !! Lincs have a pilot running at the moment where it has volunteer PCSO's, the others are watching it, i can bet they are :slbx:

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Thu Oct 01, 2015 7:23 pm

Just seen that the met has suspeneded their decison on the cull of the pcso's as the public are very angry at the idea :slbx: that is excellent news, who would have thought that the public would get behind us when in 2002 they were at best uninterested in us.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by powdermonkey » Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:48 pm

Hudson,

Maybe it's part of a greater growing realisation amongst the public as to just how severe the cuts are and how it's affecting staffing levels, availability, response times etc. More and more am I hearing a lack of response from officers to control's requests for someone to attend a job, sometimes even when it's an assault. Whatever the reason, I hope the realisation spreads.
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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:05 pm

I do agree, i too have noticed that some of the calls (grade 2 and even some 1's), are simply not being responed too in the kind of time frames i would of seen even a year or so ago..... a lot of the response officers i speak with (well those new in service) are telling me that the police is now a job and not a career, and that they can not see themselves doing this job in 10 years time :slwo:

That is such a change from what would of been the response say 15 or so years ago when the only pc's who left the service either died, retired or were dismissed.... very few would of simply resigned and got another job :slcool:

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:08 pm

A couple of days ago Essex announced they were shedding 190 pcso's out of a total of 250.......

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by ninjamonk » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:00 am

It's crazy, so with that many officers gone the remaining few, their job role must have to change ? and i guess they will have to re apply for their own jobs with a new job title and after all that effort for re applying and if you are fortunate to get your job back, how long will you have it ? because looking at the way everything is going neighborhood policing will be extinct within the next few years.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:51 am

Agree, i do see neighbourhood as a dying area of policing i am afraid, as i have said before, great to have when times are good but when the hammer comes down its back to basics.

Also i posted last that Merseyside police had said they were cutting 80% of their PCSO's.......well a few days ago the local L'pool paper had an article saying they had now decided to cut 100% !!! Most will go by April 2016 with the remainder going by Sept 2016. I am very sorry to say but i do think that our role is going the way of the T-Rex.

In my force our role has become hollowed out over the years, with a lot of what we used to do going to other newly created roles, now i think we could be lost and most of our duties be taken over by PC's or simply not done at all. It was great while it lasted but i do think that now the party is over.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by powdermonkey » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:49 pm

" going the way of the T-Rex"

I wonder if there'll be a blockbuster film in a few years where PCSO's are recreated from the DNA left on a half eaten sausage roll? :slhuh:
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:24 pm

powdermonkey wrote:" going the way of the T-Rex"

I wonder if there'll be a blockbuster film in a few years where PCSO's are recreated from the DNA left on a half eaten sausage roll? :slhuh:

Along with a number of latte's and small cupcakes :slarr:

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:26 am

arthurgray50@blu wrote:I believe that Merseyside Police merged there PCSO's with Transport. and still have the CSO name
Few years back Merseytravel started contributing for them to provide a presence solely on the buses. They do school talks re: road safety too. As for cuts, not sure if they're protected anymore than any others?
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:38 am

powdermonkey wrote:Council TV picked up a male with a Taser. No one replied to the request for officers to attend so the 2 PCSO's went, carefully, with CCTV watching them, to "observe and report". They found the male and, using S.24 PACE detained him, searched & seized the Taser. A PC attended to arrest the male and more when he and his mates kicked off. The 2 PCSO's got a very nice PDR entry from supervision. This situation where there is only a small number of PCSO's patrolling the town centre on a weekend night is now the norm rather than the exception.
By taser do you mean a stun gun:
Image

or an actual taser?
Image

Just to clarify. The former is designed to literally make you lose consciousness immediately (if it's a good enough make), the other is designed to lock up your muscles so you can be restrained. It can obviously be used to drive-stun someone as well as from a distance.

And as for s24aPACE - I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I wouldn't ever tell any PCSO to write the word 'detained' in their MG11. There is no such thing under s24aPACE. Also, it's subsection A. These are things a good solicitior would pick up on and make someone look a divvy with. Also, I'm assuming your force as s32PACE powers of search for items that may assist escape? Have they been given the general power of seizure under section 19 PACE?

And I agree, it's awful that they think it's fine to leave 2 PCSOs in the town centre with no bobbies providing a presence.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:46 am

I work in a large force and we have pcso's (single crewed) in the town centres, at weekends all the time, yes they get abuse (verbal) but if that is their beat then that's where they go. The role we have is a no win, the public (those who know what we can do and have a criminal record) often take zero notice of what is said or asked of them, calling up a pc for assistance if they won't give you details just gets you a raised eyebrow for waisting their time when they have other tasks to perform..... no win.

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:04 am

Hudson wrote:I work in a large force and we have pcso's (single crewed) in the town centres, at weekends all the time, yes they get abuse (verbal) but if that is their beat then that's where they go. The role we have is a no win, the public (those who know what we can do and have a criminal record) often take zero notice of what is said or asked of them, calling up a pc for assistance if they won't give you details just gets you a raised eyebrow for waisting their time when they have other tasks to perform..... no win.
I feel you buddy. I used to get this a lot. Any other PCSO said they never did was either lying or simply walked past everything and ignored anything the saw or were told. What used to annoy the hell out of me is when the person stopped was a total scumbag and behaving like one and the PC would attend and they'd be so polite and then give details. The PC would look at you like you're an idiot and can't handle people, not knowing (or wanting to acknowledge at least) that people act so much better towards PCs usually. One lad in our office was told 'You just don't know how to talk to people' once by a PC because a social worker was putting in a complaint about him. He had an issue with them ignoring a guy who was a real risk to the public but they didn't want to do anything. Once the bobby got involved they actually did something, but the PCSO was the most honest, tolerant and nice guy you've ever met. So for him to be told he had crap people skills was just a joke.

The PCSO role could have survived if they had given us the actual powers and remit to do our job and get on with it. We should have been the replacement for the bobby on the beat. A bobby is only taken off the streets and stuck in an office for weeks on end if the CHOSE to be. A bobby can also choose not to arrest for months or years on end (I've met a few sad cases who this applies to and verified on NICHE / CMS).

Look at how people relate to BTP PCSOs. A whole lot better because they see the kit. No, that doesn't mean they'll be locking up every day, but goes a long way when dealing with people.

Here's my idea: Consult with trading standards, local travel companies, local authority, dog wardens, etc. Get them all to chip in to combine the PCSO role into the same and what used to be a dog warden, trading standards, noise abatement, etc. officer. Multi-funded to tackle ALL quality of life issues. Designate them as each title to give them the investigatory / powers.

My other idea is to make a local security company with black police type uniforms (close but not the offence of dressing or impersonating), give them handcuffs, DNA marker spray (that's all legally unfortunately), limb restraints and a marked vehicle with a cage in the back. Maybe dog units too. Witness or reasonable grounds to suspect a citizen's arrestable or BoP offence (if it continues or is likely to continue), call the Po or take them directly to custody themselves. Do their own MG11s, collect CCTV, maybe even completed by the time the bobby gets there. A lot of the job done. You know this is coming! And yes, it'll be G4S. The whole "It works in America" idea.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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Re: Hundreds of PCSOs to lose their jobs in West Mids

Post by Hudson » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:33 pm

I take your point about the powers but to be homest i think our role and the cuts have gone too far for that now, also the FED would never allow it, they have hated us from day one and i can see them having a party should this role go totally in most forces. I too have met some very lazy bobbies, there are still places in the force where they can hide, one i met had not arrested for so long he had forgot the caution :slwot:

Some are so fat that they can not fit in bodyarmour and are doing jobs that you would pay £15k to a civvy, but because they can not be made redundant then they keep their warrant card and their top wack bobbie salary and way hey.... money in the bank. Very annoying and an insult to tax payers who i am sure would expect a police officer to at least deal with offenders once in a while !

I am not 100% sure where this role is going but i don't have a good feeling about it, we are an easy cut to make, we earn good money and the savings could be used to recruit more pc's.

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