Policing & Crime Bill

PCSO stuff ONLY: Burning issues, high profile questions or cases that have been highlighted in national or local news, let's talk about them IN HERE! A link to the item would be great where possible.

Moderator: national-PCSOs

moi1985
Registered Member
Registered Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 am

Policing & Crime Bill

Post by moi1985 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:16 am

The Policing & Crime Bill got it's second reading the Commons this week. Implications for PCSOs are:

The removal of Standard powers, making all powers designated at the discretion of the Chief Constable.
The creation of Voluntary PCSOs who can be designated with the same powers as PCSOs
The ability for PCSOs and VPSCOs to carry Pava/cs

It also creates the option for PCCs to take over running of Fire Services too.

User avatar
Big Brother
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:36 pm
Examiner: XIII
Location: Somewhere

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by Big Brother » Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:23 am

Yes to the removal of standard powers, but only the definition. It is being replaced with this:

(6B)

20The powers and duties that may be conferred or imposed on a person
designated under this section are—
(a)

any power or duty of a constable, other than a power or duty
specified in Part 1 of Schedule 3B (excluded powers and duties);
.(b)

where the person is designated as a community support officer
25or a community support volunteer, any power or duty that is
described in Schedule 3C as a power or duty of a community
support officer or community support volunteer.

I interpret it as we will be able to do everything a cop can, except the specifically included powers which according to the schedules at the bottom are the power of arrest, power to search (except the ones we have) and some terrorism related ones.
Big brother is watching you.

moi1985
Registered Member
Registered Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by moi1985 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 1:15 pm

But only those powers your Chief Constable wants you to have. If they want you to, they will be able to take away those powers that are now standard.

User avatar
powdermonkey
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by powdermonkey » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:09 pm

Does anyone know how many hours per week a voluntary PCSO has to commit to? Mind you, I don't understand why anyone would be a volunteer PCSO rather than a Special with extra powers and PPE.

My force is apparently looking to recruit PCSO's as backfill to replace those who leave, most of whom become PC's. We are also looking at our weekend allowances being replaced by a "premium payment" which of course will be less than the allowance. We're obviously angry and p****d off at yet more erosion of our terms and conditions. It's that feeling of impotence and things being one sided, there's no way we could turn round and say, OK we'll only work a 5 day set for the same money. As for the union, it's a waste of space. It's never won anything and apart from the legal benefits I may need, I wouldn't bother with membership.

Most PCSO's here would go if they could find an alternative job. That's the only thing that would help the force recruit people, the lack of jobs elsewhere. The wage is fast heading towards what you can earn in an office or factory, without the verbal and physical abuse, the foul weather and the poor leadership.

The only thing now keeping me in the job is my mortgage. One that's gone I'm off. I've worked for the police for nearly 24 years and whereas once I was proud to do so, now I hope people don't ask me what I do for a living. If I ever get asked by someone "how do I become a police officer" I tell them to think of an alternative career.

Last night I went to an awards ceremony. The force couldn't even put on a decent buffet.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

moi1985
Registered Member
Registered Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by moi1985 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:42 pm

The removal of shift allowance and Saturday/Sunday enhancements, being replaced with Premium Pay is a national thing applying to all police staff. Whatever rate of pay they come up with I can't see it working for everyone. For my shift pattern, the premium will need to be 65% of my basic hourly rate to break even, and for detention officers it will need to be 41.3% as they do more antisocial hours. Bearing in mind that PCs get 10% extra for working between 1900 and 0600.
This was all introduced in the Windsor reforms, but just never got around to being implemented yet, unlike to parts relating to PCs. Could that be because Unison has more bite then the Fed?

User avatar
powdermonkey
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by powdermonkey » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:18 pm

We have yet to be told what the premium pay will be but it comes just after losing 6% of our shift allowance which equates to approx. £85 take home pay if you're top of the scale (as I think most PCSO's are by now).

As for Unison, I can't say I have any faith in them any more.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

User avatar
Big Brother
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:36 pm
Examiner: XIII
Location: Somewhere

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by Big Brother » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:15 am

I think the role of PCSO is dying. If other forces are anything like mine, the erosion of numbers is just the start. Add on the impending reductions in pay, I think a PCSO who isn't actively looking for another job needs to be.
Big brother is watching you.

JimmyRiddle
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:05 am

I kinda amazed at these changes coming in. I'm guessing some forces e.g. BTP, NWP, etc. are going to give their PCSOs all possible powers and others are going to remove some apart from the most basic e.g. name and address, seizure of alcohol, etc. and probably cut their pay. But with volunteer PCSOs, who needs paid PCSOs anyway?

The public will have an outrage about this if it gets good coverage, even though they fail to acknowledge there are fully warranted officers already working as volunteers.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

User avatar
powdermonkey
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 462
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:07 pm
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by powdermonkey » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:55 pm

JimmyRiddle,

I'd be surprised if many people chose to be a voluntary PCSO given that by being a Special they'd get more powers and PPE. It remains to be seen how many hours they'd be expected to commit to. I'd hate to think that any force would seek to replace all it's paid PCSO's with voluntary ones and I doubt it'd be a good idea. There's less control regarding discipline (they can just jack it in and walk away), how many people could or would do it for 8 or 10 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week for no pay, and the force would not know from day to day how many PCSO's it'd have on duty.

I feel that any force that uses voluntary PCSO's would be undermining our role and, if it was my force, I hope they don't ask me to tutor one, because it'd be a flat refusal.

Almost every day now I'm coming across yet one more thing to disillusion me, from being sent to jobs that are really civil matters, to cuts in pay and allowances.
I have seen the truth and it makes no sense.

moi1985
Registered Member
Registered Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 am

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by moi1985 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 5:11 pm

Our pay and conditions are national, and not decided by individual forces. The most an individual force can do it alter shift patterns and work areas. So if you used to work until midnight, but now work until 2200 then there would be a saving as you would get 12.5% shift pay as opposed to 14%. The vpcso would be the same as any other police volunteer, expected to be working 4 hours per week.

JimmyRiddle
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 903
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:59 pm

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by JimmyRiddle » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:53 am

I don't think they will get many PCSO volunteers but they will get enough to fill a few positions. And it's not so much a case of wanting kit or powers, but people will see it as 'low risk' (nice one haha) but something to add to their CV.

Also, it seems we're going to go through the same tensions that Peelers and Speshes did when they were first brought together (1850s?)
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

User avatar
falkor
Navigator
Navigator
Posts: 5061
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:39 am
Alignment: 'Xevious'
Location: Surrey
Contact:

Re: Policing & Crime Bill

Post by falkor » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:59 pm

they will get enough to fill a few positions? define "positions" ? I can't see any positions being filled but do clarify that please :slww:
Big Brother wrote:I think the role of PCSO is dying. If other forces are anything like mine, the erosion of numbers is just the start. Add on the impending reductions in pay, I think a PCSO who isn't actively looking for another job needs to be.
check this out http://www.indeed.co.uk/Police-Communit ... ficer-jobs seems to be quite a few PCSO jobs up for grabs there :slred:

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic