Confrontational or not ????

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do you face confrontation in your role as a pcso?

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Raven
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Post by Raven » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:11 am

I work in a city centre and was told when I first arrived 4 years ago, that we were non confrontational (that still makes me laugh) and we would never work past 10pm as it was too dangerous for PCSOs. Well we all know the truth of that, I am out there til 2am on Fridays and Saturdays standing in the area where we get all the trouble as a visible deterrant.
I am non confrontational just as the book says, but the punters are not, and short of running away I have to do something, So we call it in, calm it down, act as a human barrier, you know, whatever it takes until the cavalry turn up.
The PCs in my area are great people and come as fast as time allows, but sometimes it is not quik enough because they are busy and the punters are very angry, so we have to rely on positive self defence.
We are valued more today by most PCs than we used to be, so we are making progress.
Last edited by Raven on Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:22 am, edited 4 times in total.
If at first you don't succeed - head for the pub!

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Big Brother
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Post by Big Brother » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:04 pm

Raven wrote:I work in a city dentre and was told when I frst arrived 4 years ago, that we were non confrontational (that still makes me laugh) and we would never work past 10pm as it was too dangerous for PCSOs. Well we all know the truth of that, I am out there til 2am on Fridays and Saturdsys standing in the area where we get all the trouble as a visible deterrant.
I am non confrontational just as the book says, but the punters are not, and short of running away I have to do something, So we call it in, calm it down, act as a human barrier, you know, whatever it takes until the cavalry turn up.
The PCs in my area are great people and come as fast as time allows, but sometimes it is not quik enough because they are busy and the punters are very angry, so we have to rely on positive self defence.
We are valued more today by most PCs than we used to be, so we are making progress.

You might be valued by the PC's on your shift, but it sounds like all the gaffers are worried about is putting extra bods on the street then covering their own backsides by saying you shouldn't be confrontational.
Big brother is watching you.

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Raven
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Post by Raven » Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:39 am

Of course you are right.

We are a cheap resource and we will be used.

If we are told that we are non confrontational then we cannot expect compensation when we step in to help, thus saving money.
If at first you don't succeed - head for the pub!

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joeyspoons
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Post by joeyspoons » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:46 am

Raven wrote:Of course you are right.

We are a cheap resource and we will be used.

If we are told that we are non confrontational then we cannot expect compensation when we step in to help, thus saving money.
And That is the most Contributing factor to me. I am not prepared to have my Family suffer for someone elses mistake. If they tell me to do it the answer would be NO, I am not here for that.

However for those of you that are prepared fine, When it goes pearshaped the bosses will say THEY KNO THE RULES!!
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Trip
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Post by Trip » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:10 pm

It can go pearshaped at any time mate. From my experience at the station I currently work out of (in the middle of a busy town) the jobs that have gone pearshaped have had nothing todo with bars or clubs.

If I am tasked to conduct licensing checks at a pub or bar (as Jimmy stated we don't go clubs as we have a sperate unit for this) by my PS or above, or enforce no drinking zones (all of which I am able todo with my remit) then I shall do it.

Don't mistake that as me being gung-ho, I address every job and situation and react accordingly.
the answer would be NO, I am not here for that.
This I don't undestand, we are here to be enforcing by laws etc. (unless you are refering to something i've missed?)

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joeyspoons
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Post by joeyspoons » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:23 pm

Trip wrote:It can go pearshaped at any time mate. From my experience at the station I currently work out of (in the middle of a busy town) the jobs that have gone pearshaped have had nothing todo with bars or clubs.

If I am tasked to conduct licensing checks at a pub or bar (as Jimmy stated we don't go clubs as we have a sperate unit for this) by my PS or above, or enforce no drinking zones (all of which I am able todo with my remit) then I shall do it.

Don't mistake that as me being gung-ho, I address every job and situation and react accordingly.
the answer would be NO, I am not here for that.
This I don't undestand, we are here to be enforcing by laws etc. (unless you are refering to something i've missed?)
Trip

I am talking about Pubs n Clubs policing
NORTHERN SOUL Its a way of Life

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"Sir you are Drunk"
"Yes Madam and you are UGLY"
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stu
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Post by stu » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:13 am

But you will find many pubs and clubs on some pcso's beats! If its on there beat then they have to police that area.
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Trip
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Post by Trip » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:30 am

joeyspoons wrote: Trip

I am talking about Pubs n Clubs policing
This is something we do on a weekly basis all over my division, even all over the force alongside PCs. Its well within our remit to be enforcing the no drinking zones and tackling ASB in these areas.

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joeyspoons
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Post by joeyspoons » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:17 am

Come on lets get real, I know there are pubs and Clubs on beats! we have them here. I too walk thru the city on my way back to the nick no probs. if i get called by control to a certain area re ASB no problems, The problem arises when its starts to get out of hand.

If you think i am going to stand and fight with these alcahol infuelled idiots because they dont want to be moved on the answer is NO. and i will tell anyone this regardless of Rank. I will not put myself or colleague in that situation.

There are a few on here that will muck in, fine go ahead i just hope you come out smelling of roses!!
NORTHERN SOUL Its a way of Life

Winston Churchill. (Quote)
"Sir you are Drunk"
"Yes Madam and you are UGLY"
"But in the morning i will be SOBER"

Carpe Diem

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abdi1234
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Post by abdi1234 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:16 pm

We had an urgent assistance outside a bar/club last night. We all came a running and the specials had there asps out. Through out the night there were constant fights despite police being there for the previous double GBHs.

If drunk people are prepared to commit GBH and then fight armed specials there, what are they going to do to PCSOs?

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Post by mj12cz » Sat Jan 05, 2008 12:48 pm

abdi1234 wrote:We had an urgent assistance outside a bar/club last night. We all came a running and the specials had there asps out. Through out the night there were constant fights despite police being there for the previous double GBHs.

If drunk people are prepared to commit GBH and then fight armed specials there, what are they going to do to PCSOs?
fight them...

It was funny over christmas all the PCSO had AL cancelled and were "Public Order Patrols" on Christmas Eve and New Yeas Eve... :shock:

The only people on foot during the day and in the evening up to 22.00 were PCSO's and they were tasked to deal with Public order... I got the Op order, couldn't believe it my self at first. :shock:
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abdi1234
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Post by abdi1234 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:52 pm

I think there will be some health and safety actions against individual forces if they are putting PCSOs at increasing risk to try to fudge there figures.

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Post by mj12cz » Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:11 pm

abdi1234 wrote:I think there will be some health and safety actions against individual forces if they are putting PCSOs at increasing risk to try to fudge there figures.
Agreed but it is happening.
"Its a mother beautiful bridge and its going to be there"

Save the cheer leader, save the world.....

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
George Orwell

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ANTHONY C
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Post by ANTHONY C » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:28 am

I think there is little doubt that we are in a confrontational role at least in my borough we are, how confrontational you might be could be open to interpretation, also i guess it would depend on whether you want to confront mop about certain issues or turn a blind eye or use decretion, i chose to confront not because i want problems but because i want to ensure that borough policy is maintained, as said i could use decretion alot of my colleagues do, but thats not for me perhaps i am doing the wrong thing.
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:30 pm

Sometimes I wonder if the word "confrontational"is misleading. I have a PCSO on a neighbouring borough stabbed and slashed with a stanly knife sitting with his arm out of a patrol car at traffic lights. On my borough one of our PCSOs was stabbed in the arm when he tried to stop a cyclist. Another was talking to some youths about the alcohol she had just confiscated from them, and they were fine, but she was punched to the ground and was being strangled by the cord from her brooch by some passing drunken street drinkers when we all turned up. I have seen officers attacked by friends of people they were talking to when the attackers have misread the situation.
You do not have to be in confrontational situations, but you are out there on the street, walking the beat and YOU are the new front line. Even for those of us that say, I am not getting involved - it is not in my remit, I am not paid to do that! It can happen to you, and if it does what are you going to say then?
We could go into the argument about cuffs and batons, but in truth, on many of these occassions they would not have helped (initially) and I do not want to get into that tired old argument again. But you can be as non confrontational as you like, but if the guy (or girl) next to you wants to kick off and sees you as the focus for all their troubles, you are going to be in the situation whether you want it or not.
Fortunately most of us will never have to face this...............but what of those of us that do?
If at first you don't succeed - head for the pub!

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