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Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 7:22 pm
by mj12cz
Kipper, Why has this gone Sticky? I'm happy it has just wondering why?

Posted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:37 pm
by danielswindells
We don't have it where I am(at least I don't...yet :? )....but I would like it...even on a limited basis as suggested...I kind of feel embarrassed for instance when I have to ask the station officer to help me check if a card I found is stolen or get a PC to put on a cris for a clear criminal damage report(kids breaking a window with a brick) etc.

Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:19 am
by stu
As cidb said, we have been doing this for along time now. It helps that we can complete the forms and submit without having to call a pc away from their jobs.

Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:52 pm
by abdi1234
CSOs are going to have to do crime reports anyway as they will be manning front desks in police stations. It can't be any worse than telephone reporting, thats a real mess and the reports are S##T! Those reports are taken by civilians already (strangly don't go anywhere).

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:50 pm
by falkor
mj12cz wrote:Kipper, Why has this gone Sticky? I'm happy it has just wondering why?
hi mj :D

this has gone sticky because it is an extremely important indicator of how the role of a PCSO is going

the whole REASON that PCSOs were never allowed to put on crimes, was that they were never supposed to play any part in investigating crimes

this rationale, apparently, is changing :wink:
Headset 57 wrote:We do the whole bloody lot!.
Take vic and wit statements, even for some serious crimes and last night involved in a threats to kill with knives.
[falkor = stunned :shock: ]

Jeff, I think this says it all

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:07 pm
by mj12cz
I spoke to a BTP inspector recently and he said that the PCSO's are very much hands on and he would like to see them as another extension of the regulars.

I guess that they are going to have a different and a more "Hands on role" than someone like me with 3 schools and a large rural beat. Despite my area probably being 100 times the size, I guess I see 100 time less people passing through it!

Its totally different policing...Which is what the government doesn’t understand about our roles.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:06 pm
by mono
In BTP we march to the beat of a different drum but, some people don't like to march.

We do crime reports and as far as I am aware, Headset may be able to advise differently??, have done since year dot (for BTP that is).

What's the point of providing a first response to incidents, within the remit..blah, blah, if you can't do the initial legwork? That way you wouldn't be providing a service to either the police (as in Pcso) or the community (as in pCso).

After all, some of us do know the difference between types of crimes (ie..robbery vs theft and assault, burglary vs aggravated burglary etc..)

Reporting a crime for someone means that they can move on with their life (or working day) and if I have any suspicions about the validity of their claim I'll contact a p.c ,advise them and delay the reporting process for further investigation (not by me!!).

Toodles... 8)

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 8:53 pm
by alihowe
CIDB wrote:been doing CID105 ( crime complaint forms in essex ) for years mate, Its not big deal mate, just another bit of paper, in our none paperwork role :wink:
Yep, me too. And we do them for anything and everything. We just don't do the further investigation on it, although having said that we do carry out door to door enquiries and view/sieze CCTV etc.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:26 pm
by POCA
alihowe wrote: we do carry out door to door enquiries and view/sieze CCTV etc.
Collect, not seize :wink:

Certainly where I work CSOs can do door to door enquiries but the moment someone says "Yes, I saw something" a PC takes over to take a statement.

I see no reason why CSOs should not do crime reports but will make two points:

1. They should not be sent to take crime reports. Their job is to be visible, not sat around doing paperwork. Having to take one incidentally to a job you are legitimately sent to or come across is different.

2. Proper training is a must. The standard of crime recording in my force when not done by police officers is awful. Bobbies are being assigned crimes and having no idea what it's about because the crime report is sorely lacking in detail.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:39 pm
by mj12cz
POCA wrote:
alihowe wrote: we do carry out door to door enquiries and view/sieze CCTV etc.
Collect, not seize :wink:

Certainly where I work CSOs can do door to door enquiries but the moment someone says "Yes, I saw something" a PC takes over to take a statement.

I see no reason why CSOs should not do crime reports but will make two points:

1. They should not be sent to take crime reports. Their job is to be visible, not sat around doing paperwork. Having to take one incidentally to a job you are legitimately sent to or come across is different.

2. Proper training is a must. The standard of crime recording in my force when not done by police officers is awful. Bobbies are being assigned crimes and having no idea what it's about because the crime report is sorely lacking in detail.
We've been siezing CCTV since day 1, as well as door to doors.

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:50 pm
by POCA
Collecting. You have no power of seizure as we established a while ago.

When you do door to door do you take statements from witnesses?

Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:16 pm
by mono
I, as a BTP PCSO, take both witness and victim statements and we ,in BTP, are deployed as such.

I have no problem with this (I was doing it on an ad hoc basis in the Met' and for the previous 15 years as Store Detective, which included PACE interviews of suspects, which were then written up and used in civil proceedings, or passed to the local force) :shock:

I have been trained (by BTP) to do so officially, as part of the student officer programme, and use PEACE etc..

It's not rocket science, just remember the points to prove, ADVOKAT, blah, blah..!!

..wha'-eva.. :lol:

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:02 am
by mj12cz
POCA wrote:Collecting. You have no power of seizure as we established a while ago.
We go out and "Collect" or "Seize" the CCTV, put it in an Evidence/Seizure bag, fill out the back for continuity and hand it to the investigating officer. That’s got to be the same as seizing.

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:55 pm
by POCA
mj12cz wrote:
POCA wrote:Collecting. You have no power of seizure as we established a while ago.
We go out and "Collect" or "Seize" the CCTV, put it in an Evidence/Seizure bag, fill out the back for continuity and hand it to the investigating officer. That’s got to be the same as seizing.
Well, we have discussed it before. But here goes: Seizing means you take it under compulsion under a legal power, usually s. 19 of PACE. It means you then exhibit the tape to the court. Since you have no power of seizure under s. 19 you cannot do this. All you can do is collect the tape which has been handed over voluntarily. It should be exhibited by the person giving it to you under the best evidence rule. So, no, it's not the same thing as seizing.

Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:58 pm
by alihowe
I have always been told to go and "sieze" CCTV and that;s what I write in my PNB when I get the person to sign my book. I'm sure the court would understand that I was 'collecting' the CCTV, what's the big deal. Hurt does it? lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

BIG WINK :wink:

oh yer, and a hug :cud: ..... everyone needs one of those from time to time.