Do you do Crime Reports?

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Do you do Crime Reports? For PCSO's

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shaun o
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Post by shaun o » Wed Mar 14, 2007 6:23 pm

I think a PDA is a great idea. i had a BTP PC at our station the other week and had a look at the kit, seems good. Does anybody know if this is going to be a national thing??

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Headset 57
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Post by Headset 57 » Wed Mar 14, 2007 11:51 pm

It is national in the sense that it"s a PITO and PNC piece of kit and i do think that more Forces will go down this road... :wink:

http://www.pito.org.uk/

http://www.pito.org.uk/products/pnc.php

http://www.airwaveservice.co.uk/

http://www.npia.police.uk/home.htm
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:08 am

Is this not blurring the line a little?

I may be wrong but having just read the lat two pages it seems that some PCSOs in some areas are starting to encroach on the PC side of the job?
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Headset 57
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Post by Headset 57 » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:47 am

Raven wrote:Is this not blurring the line a little?

I may be wrong but having just read the lat two pages it seems that some PCSOs in some areas are starting to encroach on the PC side of the job?
Because PC"s are sometimes a little too busy to do half the stuff themselves, or a skipper thinks it"s a better use of our time than theirs.
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alihowe
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Post by alihowe » Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:03 pm

Yes if there's not unit able to attend then we go and complete the initial crime complaint/record the crime. We have the necessary paperwork/forms to do this stored securely at various locations throughout the town, so this saves us trapsing back and forth to the Nick. Works well and helps the PC's out no end.
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:10 pm

Oh I can see the benefit and I have no objections, providing it does not cut out the visibility patrolling too much. But looking aroud the forums there are many that see anything we do extra as a challenge and an encroachment. You cannot have it both ways, or am I missing something?
Last edited by Raven on Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tim419
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Post by tim419 » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:00 pm

Met PCSOs do not take any crime reports and are in fact unable to access the system used to record crimes (CRIS). They are also do not do any statements or MG11s (apart from their own if they witness anything).

The PCSO/SRO role and Victim Care role (taking statements at police station from victims etc) obviously changes things a bit for individuals who will undertake that role, but there is a simple rule of thumb which can be applied to a range of supposedly "do-able PCSO taskings", like the mistaken ideas about searching people :-

1) is the task listed on your Designation Card?

2) have you received official training covering the task (ie. a proper Force-designed course, not just a session with an "experienced" colleague or some Borough trainer who's knocked something up)

3) have you been provided with the right equipment or resources to do the task?

If your answer to one or more of above is "No", then you should NOT do it!

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Post by alihowe » Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:21 pm

We here in Essex have had thorough training on how to fill out a crime report. We have also had extensive training on how to do our own statements, but we are not allowed and don't want to take 5 part statements from the public as this would most certainly take us off our beats.
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:10 am

Tim 419 wrote
Met PCSOs do not take any crime reports and are in fact unable to access the system used to record crimes (CRIS). They are also do not do any statements or MG11s (apart from their own if they witness anything).
I have seen the time and effort that goes into a CRIS report and it seems an unweildy piece of kit and not something I would rush to take part in

I actually met one of the system developers in my town one night, he walked up to me slightly drunk and asked me to tell every officer I knew how sorry he was for the system

You are quite right about the designation cards too, it is a simple way to be sure of what you can and cannot do, and whilst I am a great believer in the "Ways and means Act", this too can easily lead to people exceeding their role and putting themselves at risk.

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Post by jimbo » Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:26 pm

Raven wrote:I actually met one of the system developers in my town one night, he walked up to me slightly drunk and asked me to tell every officer I knew how sorry he was for the system.
I can't tell you how good that makes me feel to hear that! I hate CRIS almost as much as Merlin...
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jackpot
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Post by jackpot » Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:03 pm

It don't matter to me who takes the crime report cos it will end up in my tray anyway regardless. In my experience it's all well and good having our PCSO's out and about finding and detecting stuff, but the likes of me as a PC still has to pick it all up eventually via crime reports/enquires. My work load is immense and I currently have nearly 40 jobs in my tray.

I'm finding now that I'm spending a lot of my time picking up PCSO's work after they've come across something yet I have little time to go out and detect stuff myself as most of my 'free time' is spent in the office dying a death of paperwork. :cry:

I'm not blaming the PCSO's cos they do a fantastic job finding and detecting stuff but I feel the structure that follows thereafter needs to be looked into. I'd say a good 60%, if not more, of my time is spent chugging through paperwork.
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Raven
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Post by Raven » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:16 pm

I met a senior officer at a function a few days ago who described the PC role as an administrator. This was not meant to be derogatory, just a reflection of the facts. They seemed to be hinting that the papaerwork has taken control and that time out on the street for the ordinary officer is now such a rarity that the PCSO role was forced on them. this is a view shared, in my opinion by most police officers and by anyone who has the slightest incling of what happens.

I do not think that this was planned - it just evolved, probably as a result of smart defence lawyers and incompetent prosecutors necessitating everything sewn up before the case gets to court, and incredible attention to detail, along with any common sense on the part ot the judges and magistrates removed.

This is a personal view.
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jackpot
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Post by jackpot » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:31 pm

It will reach a head eventually. Most police officers on team are just biding their time to finish their probation before frantically trying to get off team/core policing. You only have to look at lot of forces - most people on team have 4 years or less of experience cos those with more have jumped ship. I joined to be a police officer not a desk jockey so sadly, for me, specialising and coming off core policing is the only way out.
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mattd
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Post by mattd » Thu Mar 22, 2007 2:40 pm

I think its poor jackpot that you are having to pick up a majority of your work from PCSOs- there should be a system in place so that work generated by PCSOs doesnt impinge on what you as a core officer has to handle.

Do the BTP use prisoner handling teams etc
These are my views and are not representative of the Police service with which i serve....plus most of what i say is pretty useless anyway :-)

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jackpot
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Post by jackpot » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:00 pm

As you will know BTP has various divisions and each run quite differently from the other, but I will try and explain how it works in my area:

If a PCSO goes to the station Help Phone/or speaks to a MOP and takes a crime report that 'crime' will eventually be allocated to me or another police officer in investigate. Thats another job in the tray that involves me having to take statements, obtain CCTV, doing intellegence reports, the full file as and when required etc. The PCSO has no further involvement in that job.

If a PCSO comes across something and requires a police officer that job will become mine as I have 'attended'. Thats another job in the tray that involves me having to take statements, obtain CCTV, doing intellegence reports, the full file as and when required etc. The PCSO has no further involvement in that job.

My area has no case progression or prisoner handling. We, as police officers, have to do it all i.e. statement taking, interviewing, bail, all the custody stuff and the files and paperwork that come with the jobs.

I have nearly 40 files in my tray. Thats nearly 40 jobs that need statements, CCTV viewing, files typed up, interviews, bail backs and arrests. I have to manage this within Home Office and force time limits which are constantly audited.

Trying to manage this along with repsonse work is a nightmare. In my view, and this is a personal one, i'd like to see more PC's being on team. We've not had any for over a year and a lot have left, yet we've had numerous PCSO's. Thats all well and good but it doesn't assist people like myself who are drowning in a political soup of paperwork and red tape. Our trays are only so big and there is a limit to what we can cope with.

I'm counting down the days for when I can get off team/core and become the police officer I joined to be.
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