No wonder PCs don't like us!

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Jimmy_bobby
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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by Jimmy_bobby » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:27 pm

m_clements207 wrote:ways and means my friend, ways and means. training school is one thing. you will deal with things veeeeery differently when you are on the streets. im sure you will only need to get a PC down when an arrest is required.
I second that.

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tim419
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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by tim419 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:37 pm

PCs who work with PCSOs know only too well how valuable the role is, and how we couldn't manage without it. The only time I've heard anything negative is from one or two team officers who had no idea what PCSOs do and couldn't be bothered to find out. Needless to say, this changes dramatically once they find out, either by being assisted by PCSOs at an incident of having a PCSO take on an important task on their behalf such as a follow-up victim visit.


Do PCs "get fed up" by PCSOs constantly calling on them because as PCSOs they "don't have powers"? NO! This DOESN'T happen. PCSOs are more than able to deal with all sorts of stuff without ever having to call for a PC, and on the occasions they do - officers are quick to respond because it's a colleague calling for help.

Don't get hung up on the "powers" issue - you'll be amazed what you can achieve through presence and professionalism, without needing a PC next to you all the time!

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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by typecastboy » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:54 pm

tim419 wrote:PCs who work with PCSOs know only too well how valuable the role is, and how we couldn't manage without it. The only time I've heard anything negative is from one or two team officers who had no idea what PCSOs do and couldn't be bothered to find out. Needless to say, this changes dramatically once they find out, either by being assisted by PCSOs at an incident of having a PCSO take on an important task on their behalf such as a follow-up victim visit.


Do PCs "get fed up" by PCSOs constantly calling on them because as PCSOs they "don't have powers"? NO! This DOESN'T happen. PCSOs are more than able to deal with all sorts of stuff without ever having to call for a PC, and on the occasions they do - officers are quick to respond because it's a colleague calling for help.

Don't get hung up on the "powers" issue - you'll be amazed what you can achieve through presence and professionalism, without needing a PC next to you all the time!
Thanks Tim, that's very helpful. I know it's different on the streets, but we constantly get it drummed into us in training, that "you can't do that, you have to call a PC down to deal with it" Will be on the streets in a weeks time, so will soon find out what happens in the real world.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
Oct 2008 - Day 1 AC
Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

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tim419
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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by tim419 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:26 am

As a former trainer (both PC recruits and PCSOs), I know well the key points that each course programme is required to cover. The course at Hendon/Sidcup tries to cover a lot in a limited time and gives a good grounding of skills and responsibilities.

Ignore anyone who trots out lines like "Forget all that crap at training school, this is the real world now" when you get out there. No course will give you everything you need in advance - instead it takes you up to a level where you can arrive on Borough and START learning the Job with confidence. There are 32 London Boroughs, as well as various other central units like Transport OCU etc in the Met, and consequently there are many diferent ways of doing what on the surface looks like the "same" job. It isn't.

When you arrive on your Borough, local priorities, environment, teams, geographical areas, demographics and about a million other things have a big part to play in how you decide to do your job. No single course at Hendon could fully equip each new member of staff in advance - it just gets you ready with a basic grounding in essentials. Life is very different out here, but don't forget or diss the party line given to you in training!

Example - local officers thought they'd do some plain clothes work on a crime problem, and had a PCSO from their team with them as he "looked the part" - in plain clothes. He was assured it was all "authorised" etc....BUT remembering what was said at training school, he pointed out that PCSOs cannot do ANY plain clothes work no matter what the reason/excuse, and that the PCs had a direct duty of care/responsibility for his welfare if he was "directed" to do so. They hadn't thought this through at all, and needless to say quickley re-thought the tasking, with an apology to the PCSO. All good intentions and no bad feelings, but the PCs didn't realise the implications - fortunately the recently-trained PCSO did not fall into the trap of thinking that just because he was with two "experienced" PCs, that they must automatically "know best" or at least be as up to date as he was!€

Good luck out there, take your time and don't be in a rush to try and learn "everything" in the first few weeks. It takes a lot longer.....and never stops!

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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by typecastboy » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:17 pm

Thanks everyone for all your good comments and advice, but let me first get one thing straight. I wasn't dissing the trainers at Hendon or Sidcup. We (the class) all have the greatest respect for them. We are a bit of a noisy class I have to say (although I'm not one of those) and they do sometimes get the hump with us because of lots of chatting. It really is like being back at school sometimes, but with a few exceptions, some of them aren't long out of school!

I highly appreciate the work that the trainers do, and appreciate they have to tell us the "right way" to do everything. It was only mentioned today by our Sergeant that when we're out on Borough we shouldn't take short cuts when filling in PNDs or such like, even if more experienced officers tell us to, as it's our neck on the line if anything should mess up and it ends up in court with us not having filled something in right.

We will no doubt learn on the job, and the learning will evolve, in such a way as we're not ignoring what we've been taught, but adapting the way we do things.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
Oct 2008 - Day 1 AC
Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

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PCSO Mickyboy
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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by PCSO Mickyboy » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:00 am

:slcup: :slbl: :slbx:
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Is now a PC

JimmyRiddle
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Re: No wonder PCs don't like us!

Post by JimmyRiddle » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:02 am

I'd have to disagree with the ex-trainer above.

I'm hoping your training was better, but ours was awful.

They failed to mention many negative aspects of the job & yet prepared us for things we'd never deal with (e.g. golden hour rape victim rule).

Don't fall into the trap of "You can't do this... or that" etc. as that's just the wrong way of thinking. And no matter what they tell you - you've ALWAYS got reasonable force. If you add that to your power of detention and are prepared for a bit of a kick-off, then you're ready to go. The other option is to turn a blind eye, which I don't think anyone joined the police to do.

And as 'Big Brother' said, some forces' PCSOs are sent out just to wander the streets all day with no direction or powers. But now, it's clear that rather than beefing up the role - we're being kept busy by all sorts of "community" stuff taking us further and further away from policing.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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