Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

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typecastboy
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Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by typecastboy » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:24 pm

CLOSE MY ACCOUNT
Last edited by typecastboy on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
Oct 2008 - Day 1 AC
Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

spongebob
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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by spongebob » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:58 pm

typecastboy wrote:Went to another i-grade call today. A male threatening staff of an NHS drug distribution centre with violence and smashing up the building. He'd legged it before we got there, but we knew where he lived, just round the corner, so we went there, called a unit, then I took up a position at the rear of the property (a flat), we had TSG on the way, and Trojan had been called as he had said he had weapons and would kill us all. After about half an hour, out he came out the back window, and I was on my own. Hit the PTT button to tell everyone he was on his way out, but they were too busy on the main channel guiding in the TSG to the location, so I had to hit my orange button, thankfully they then came running. He didn't have any weapons, but I felt then, I should have had an ASP, what would I have done, throw my big hat at him???

Added a bit of excitement to an otherwise pretty dull day!
Not wanting to take away your good work, but why were you left by yourself around the back? Esp when you've been told he has weapons and will use them? If that went tits up someone would have serious questions to answer

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GMPCSO
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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by GMPCSO » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:42 am

By the nature of the role you shouldnt have even been there. Another Gary Etchells could have happened.

Hes smashed a building up, threatened to kill you all and its been reported that he had weapons...... Not a job for a pcso...

It may be different if your confronted with a situation without being able to help it but IMO to go to an incident like that unequipped is asking for trouble and could seriously complicate the situation.

did comms actually send you to the job in the first place??? if they did I would be advising that they get training what type of jobs we can be deployed to. In GMP pcso's cannot go to grade 1 or 2 jobs. I cant say about other forces but to be sent to incidents like that with so little equipment is just dangerous.

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by Catweazle » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:01 pm

What a situation to find yourself in! It just shows that anything can happen- and to me the best solution to be prepared would at least for PCSOs to carry pepper spray. Not many of us can talk sense to a crazed maniac. Telling him that you're trained in respect and diversity isn't going to help very much! Maybe you could bring up pepper spray for PCSOs at a briefing?
I may not agree with what you have to say- but I'll defend to the death (well, almost) your right to say it.

May the Reasonable Force be with you !

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by tommy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:42 pm

Catweazle wrote:What a situation to find yourself in! It just shows that anything can happen- and to me the best solution to be prepared would at least for PCSOs to carry pepper spray. Not many of us can talk sense to a crazed maniac. Telling him that you're trained in respect and diversity isn't going to help very much! Maybe you could bring up pepper spray for PCSOs at a briefing?
PCSO's won't get captor spray. A PCSO should not have ever been deployed to that in the first place, even with a Police Officer present. The point of having us is to deal with community issues and minor problems that the PC's don't get time to deal with. We're the face of the police, there to chat and guide members of the public.

The control room have made a major mistake there, they should have been aware of the deployment restrictions of a PCSO. It's a good job no one got hurt, otherwise I could see someone being made to account for their decisions.

Part of the reason also why they don't give PCSO's captor spray, is that if it is ever removed from it's holster as a threat, reels of forms have to be filled out as to why that officer needed to deploy their captor (whether or not they actually sprayed it). The more equipment they give us, the more paperwork we'd need to do. Also, if we had captor, the control room could use it as an excuse to send us to dangerous situations if they're stretched for PC's.... that is not why we're here.
*Any posts made by me are my personal opinion*

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by plum » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:46 pm

Catweazle wrote: Not many of us can talk sense to a crazed maniac. Telling him that you're trained in respect and diversity isn't going to help very much!
love this I must use that next time we do self defence training

Easy to say but you had no place at this job after the main call went down
it should have been real cops .
Its hard and anyone wilth any service will have done the same at some point

if you had been injured the
S,H, ONE , T would hit the fan

I was in a wild west pub fight a couple of years ago
chairs and tables flying
everyone getting stuck in
at the time I felt I did the right thing
but in hindsight if the wheel had come off
I would have been dropped by the job like a hot brick

No job * No £££££*** and a court case to answer
If you choose to swim in the swamp with the crocodiles
You only have yourself to blame if you get bittern

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typecastboy
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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by typecastboy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:11 pm

CLOSE MY ACCOUNT
Last edited by typecastboy on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
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Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by JimmyRiddle » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:23 pm

This is absolutely disgusting.

You should have not even been allowed out of the station just incase something at some time may or may not happen to you... perhaps.
Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by jonny121 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:42 pm

Typecastboy - sorry I am in agreement with others, you should not of been deployed to that incident. If I tried to call up for that in my force I would of got a rollicking a very firm "NO" from the control room and probably the duty sgt aswell!! We all know the "non-confrontational" role is a load of tosh, but we are not expected to be sent to a situation where there is going to be known confrontation!
A male threatening staff of an NHS drug distribution centre with violence and smashing up the building.
pretty much sounds like known confrontation to me.




PS I am glad your orange button works :wink:
PCSO Nov 2007 - Feb 2010
PC Feb 2010...

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typecastboy
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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by typecastboy » Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:46 pm

CLOSE MY ACCOUNT
Last edited by typecastboy on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
____________________________________________
July 2008 - Passed Papersift
Oct 2008 - Day 1 AC
Nov 2008 - Passed Day 1
Nov 2008 - Day 2 Fitness/Medical - Passed
Jan 2009 - Start Training in Sidcup
Mar 2009 - On Borough

SINGLE PATROL IS THE WAY FORWARD

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GMPCSO
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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by GMPCSO » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:27 am

A job comes in on a grade 1 (which pcso's are not equipped to go to), and the operator has identified a known risk.....

Pcso turns up and is unable to do anything but stand there (or have a go and probably get hurt)...

Members of the public witness this....

Newspapers next day.... "pcso's are useless, they attend an incident and did nothing"

Its all good saying non confrontation is a load of crap, its true in some respects but to be aware of a risk like that and go to it is daft and will most probably make things worse.

If so many officers were within 10 seconds of being there, why take the risk. Its not been soft, scared or a coward but sensible.

If you walk into a situation unknowing of a risk and life is in danger, give it your all as you would if you were not on duty and came across the same.

Comms should not be sending pcso's to jobs like these and if pcso's shout up for grade ones, they should be reminded that they shouldnt go.

I can understand that each situation is different but you appear to have warning of the risk. Dont dive into something you might not come out of. We wont have pepper spray, baton or cuffs, and its for a reason.

Expect confrontation on the job, thats why you had breakaway training, to "break away" from a situation if your unfortunate to come across one.

The type of confrontation we deal with can usually be talked down. If it gets heavy, walk away, they will come around again and there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Please dont go getting yourself hurt or killed by overstepping your role, your not paid to do so and, if you did get hurt... do you think your force would pay out?? I seriously doubt it..

Glad you came out of it ok though and I hope it doesnt happen again for you.

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by PCSOTristan » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:09 pm

Is a bit random sticking single PCSO round the back of a property, in this situatuion, where TSG and armed Response were on route. Someone needs to be having a word in the shells of the SGT and Inspector about the risk to the support staff in this one. I dont see how if risk assesed a single crewed PCSO, was left looking at the back of a house with a serious violent male that could have had a weapon. Its a complete breach of the regulations and dangerous.

We can do cordon control, but should not be the first point of contact between the dangerous incident and the cordon, it put you at risk and the police officers, as you dont have the training and PPE to deal with it, your lucky that this guy wasnt armed and didnt hurt you and then sneek up and murder your PC team from behind. Complete borze up from the MET as per the norm.

They have more officers then any other force in the uk and should be able to supply enough resources to contain a property, everyone really really over stepped the mark on this one, your just lucky it didnt go tits up, cause you wouldnt have a leg to stand on! :slead:

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by lonerider » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:17 pm

that's the MET for you.

ASHES to ASHES style - bring it on!!!

Well done!

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by Catweazle » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:44 pm

No-one knows how they would react when in a situation, and rules will just go out the window. I can't imagine a PCSO just standing by if a PC is getting beaten up by a couple of yobs. Surely the PCSO won't stand by calmly taking notes?

I really think it's only a matter of time before PCSOs will need to be issued with pepper spray. Talking our way out of a sudden, unexpected and dangerous 'situation' would of course be the first resort, and pepper spray may not be necessary- but on the other hand, that may be the only situation in a career where it would help save that PCSOs (or a colleague's or a victim's) life...
I may not agree with what you have to say- but I'll defend to the death (well, almost) your right to say it.

May the Reasonable Force be with you !

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Re: Hit My Orange Button Today For The First Time!

Post by tommy » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:57 pm

Catweazle wrote:No-one knows how they would react when in a situation, and rules will just go out the window. I can't imagine a PCSO just standing by if a PC is getting beaten up by a couple of yobs. Surely the PCSO won't stand by calmly taking notes?

I really think it's only a matter of time before PCSOs will need to be issued with pepper spray. Talking our way out of a sudden, unexpected and dangerous 'situation' would of course be the first resort, and pepper spray may not be necessary- but on the other hand, that may be the only situation in a career where it would help save that PCSOs (or a colleague's or a victim's) life...
That is a different story. The point is, a PCSO should never have attended an incident where it is fully known that something will kick off. If a PCSO stumbles across an incident then fine, fair enough... but to be deployed to one is different. You also make a good point, I can't imagine a PCSO standing by and watching a PC getting beaten up either. Even though there would be a risk, I would never stand by and watch a collegue getting beaten up, i'd give it my best. HOWEVER... that is also a different story. The PCSO shouldn't have been sent, and a lone PC shouldn't have entered without backup.

Also... its captor spray, not pepper. We don't need it, if you read the other posts in the forum.
*Any posts made by me are my personal opinion*

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