Crime scene powers

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spongebob
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Crime scene powers

Post by spongebob » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:53 pm

As pcso's we don't have any powers to stop people from entering a cordon(other than terrorism cordons) I was thinking the other night what would happen if we were to let someone through, other than annoy CID etc?

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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by typecastboy » Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:57 pm

I've been on Cordons with the crime scene log and don't let anyone in unless they are authorised to do so, so are you telling me I'm not allowed to do that either! Actually it wasn't physically me with the log, it was elcapitan, but I was with him at the time.
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by baronsmirnoff » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:06 pm

What SPONGEBOB is getting at TYPECASTBOY is yes you can ask some one not to enter but you have no power to stop them if they decide to cross the line most will obey you but you will get maybe 1 in 1000 who 'know their rights' and will go through
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by Hysteria » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:54 pm

Grrrrr


Have cordon loads of times and mostly the public have been ok with having to do a little detour . A couble of times have been in charge of log book etc , Only had two bad experiences with the public , one where we had too cordon most of vauxhall and vauxhall BR cos of a bomb scare , all the underground had to be eveacuated the lot and the passenger's were really pissy and the second was a bus crash at vauxhall buss interchange it had happened just after the bombings so everyone was as you'd expect on high level secruity again everywhere was evacuated angain the passengers were pissy and to boot we had idiot press to deal with .


we were doing one cordon on a estate where some kid had stabbed a bloke and our inspector said the only people allowed thru were residents who had to sign the log book and be escorted by a police officer and soco . tbh had know idea they could just walk thru if they wanted too .

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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by typecastboy » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:46 pm

Arrh yes, now I remember when we did training and did the crimescene thing, where it was explained that we could tell people they couldn't cross the line, but couldn't physically stop them, how stupid is that!!!!
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by PI & GI » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:05 pm

Another example of (' we are good to use when it suits our supervisors and pc's etc- but the people at the top wont give us the powers that we need!)
Why cant the powers that be give us the power to stop idiots going thorugh a police tape, how difficult would this be? lol this really pees me off, but hey we will soon have the worthless power to seize spray cans so it ok! :slbx: But the duty skipper would gladly have a go it one of us 'let 'someone thru. lol
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by jonny121 » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:20 am

In my experience the public generally don't breach the cordon for crime scenes. There is normally a lot of "what's going on?" etc etc. With road closures seems to be totally different though.........
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by typecastboy » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:45 am

Power or not with cordons, I think I would stop anyone regardless and I'm pretty sure it would be with full support of my superiors. Cordons are there for a reason, if someone didn't take any notice of it and refused to stop, I would stop them and call for a unit. Bending the rules? yes, I'm sure it is, but if a cordon is there, then that's what I would do, anyone with me on this one, or are you all going to go down the "going beyond your remit" line again?
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by Jimmy_bobby » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:49 pm

typecastboy wrote:Power or not with cordons, I think I would stop anyone regardless and I'm pretty sure it would be with full support of my superiors. Cordons are there for a reason, if someone didn't take any notice of it and refused to stop, I would stop them and call for a unit. Bending the rules? yes, I'm sure it is, but if a cordon is there, then that's what I would do, anyone with me on this one, or are you all going to go down the "going beyond your remit" line again?
It depends, TCB, if you’re stopping them by simply standing in their path, or if you are physically laying hands on to prevent them from going through the cordon. And without a power, it’s technically assault. Something your superiors would not support if a complaint was raised of assault, and you had no powers to use such force…

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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by Marlon » Tue Dec 15, 2009 4:59 pm

Jimmy_bobby wrote:
typecastboy wrote:Power or not with cordons, I think I would stop anyone regardless and I'm pretty sure it would be with full support of my superiors. Cordons are there for a reason, if someone didn't take any notice of it and refused to stop, I would stop them and call for a unit. Bending the rules? yes, I'm sure it is, but if a cordon is there, then that's what I would do, anyone with me on this one, or are you all going to go down the "going beyond your remit" line again?
... if you are physically laying hands on to prevent them from going through the cordon ... without a power, it’s technically assault. Something your superiors would not support if a complaint was raised of assault, and you had no powers to use such force…


What Jimmy_Bobby said. You'd have no protection in law, if a complaint was made against you.

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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by miller » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:22 pm

This is a very good point,

Out of interest, what power/s has a constable to prevent someone entering a crime scene/cordon?

Should we not be making our feelings known to unison/acpo so this can be dealt with?

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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by Big Brother » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:03 pm

miller wrote:This is a very good point,

Out of interest, what power/s has a constable to prevent someone entering a crime scene/cordon?

Should we not be making our feelings known to unison/acpo so this can be dealt with?

1.There is specific legislation relating to cops and the enforcement of cordons e.t.c. however it'll need one of them to tell you.
2.It's never been raised as an issue before, instead they're concentrating on stupid "powers" such as being able to seize fireworks instead of useful ones like the above.
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PI & GI
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by PI & GI » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:39 pm

Obstruct / resist a person assisting a constable in execution of duty:


PRA 2002

2) Any person who resists or wilfully obstructs—
(a) a designated person in the execution of his duty,
(b) an accredited person in the execution of his duty, or
(c) a person assisting a designated or accredited person in the execution of his duty,
is guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, or to both.


Constables power of arrest only.
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typecastboy
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by typecastboy » Tue Dec 15, 2009 7:52 pm

So as they are committing an offence, does that mean that we can detain them, with reasonable force if necessary.

I understand about the protection under law bit, but I'de still do it if necessary, wouldn't you? depending on why the cordon was there in the first place I suppose.
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Re: Crime scene powers

Post by Big Brother » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:53 pm

typecastboy wrote:So as they are committing an offence, does that mean that we can detain them, with reasonable force if necessary.

If they refuse name and address or they're comitting a breach of the peace.

The question is though, is protecting a crime scene a lawful duty of a PCSO. I fear it's something that would have to be tested in court before we get an answer.
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