Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

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THFC
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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:28 pm

Yes

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by Colt Stavers » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:31 pm

THFC - don't believe you :wink:

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:33 pm

I couldn't do my job properly without understanding my powers.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by bluecopper » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:14 pm

This is really getting boring now

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by Colt Stavers » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:28 am

bluecopper wrote:This is really getting boring now
You know what the answer to that is.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by Colt Stavers » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:29 am

THFC wrote:I couldn't do my job properly without understanding my powers.
Why not lend a hand here?

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:57 pm

What's the point?

It's seems that everybody is an expert anyway.

Everyone in the role should be clear about their role, responsibilities and powers without seeking advice on a forum about something that important.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by xbob89 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:01 pm

THFC wrote:What a shambles!

Given how long the role has been in existence, I am amazed that you cannot agree and what your powers are.
I really have to agree.

It doesnt matter that forces have different policys, the point is that all PCSOs / PCs should know what they can and cannot do in their role.

Im afraid also that the point made earlier about looking for the legislation after the arrest is a little foolhardy...

You cant arrest someone unless you KNOW what you are doing unless you want to be on the wrong side of the law yourself.....

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by Colt Stavers » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:36 pm

THFC wrote:What a shambles!

Given how long the role has been in existence, I am amazed that you cannot agree and what your powers are.
I've seen police officers with the same difficulties in their job; its not unique to PCSO's. Indeed, it is police officers who give the training to PCSO's in my force, and they don't properly understand the full ins and outs and finer points when pushed.
Its good to read that you fully understand your powers, but a pity you're reluctant to share your expertise with the rest of us across the nation.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:50 pm

As I said, what's the point?

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by falkor » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:48 pm

the point is, you are on a discussion site

if you don't want to be a help to other members - being a PAIN IN THE ASS is not much of a compensation :slby: you have my full permission to move off in some other direction

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:03 am

Again, not really sure what I have done to upset you Falkor.

It's not a case of not wanting to help members, I just don't see how I can. I am not in their force and I am not a PCSO - but I do know my powers and my responsibilities for my role and where I work.

As bob also says, how can you do your job properly if you do not know what you can or cannot do. If you are not sure ask someone who does the same job as you and if they don't know ask a supervisor. If they don't know speak with your training department, and I simply do not believe that you cannot get the clarification and confirmation that you need from somewhere in your force.

To say "detain them, then look up the legislation if you can't remember it when you're doing your statement. As long as you can justify what you're doing, no problem." is fraught with danger. You have to know your powers first before you can justify what you are doing, otherwise you could be looking at PSD getting involved and suspects getting away with crimes/offences because you didn't know your stuff.

Yes, I accept that we will all come across the odd unusual situation or something that we haven't dealt with for a while but that's what Airwave and line-managers are for - just ask.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by bluecopper » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:54 pm

My point that you describe as being "foolhardy" was, as long as you know you have the power and use P.L.A.N, even if you have to look up the actual wording and act of the legislation for your statement, then your butt is covered. I know my powers, but sometimes I don't know the acts chapter and verse, and it needs to be right in the statement, so looking it up prior to writing your statement is not "foolhardy". :slbl:

This thread is still boring and I will do as you suggested I know what to do :slcool:

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by Colt Stavers » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:44 am

I gave up a while ago when I thought I had exhausted everyone's knowledge. Then JimmyR came back after a fortnight or so and started me off again.

I apologise to all thsoe who think it is boring. However, I have been motivated to continue because members' contributions have scared me. They have made statements about the law and their understanding of it which causes me a great deal of concern. What makes it worse is the absolute confidence, if not hubris, with which they say it, often putting other people down. Out of respect, I want to understand how they have come to their interpretations of the law. Who knows, I may be wrong?

I wont say what I think of those who claim to know their powers inside out, and who look disparagingly on others, whilst remaining steadfastly reluctant to contribute constructively.

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Re: Common law "we are not citizens whilst in uniform"

Post by THFC » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:49 am

Colt Stavers wrote:I wont say what I think of those who claim to know their powers inside out, and who look disparagingly on others, whilst remaining steadfastly reluctant to contribute constructively.
If you are referring to my input, as I said in my earlier post, how do you expect me to help others when I do not do the same job and do not work in their area?

If others who are doing the same job cannot agree on what their powers are I fail to see how I can help.

At the risk of repeating myself, I am amazed that after the role has been in existence for so long and there is still confusion about what you can or cannot do and if, as many think, PCSOs are the future of Policing then I find that very worrying.

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