POLICE OFFICERS, SHOULD PCSO's BE ISSUED WITH PPE?

Any other 'PCSO issues' that do not fit in to the other forums. Recruitment of PCSOs, day to day PCSO duties, questions about law, joining the regular police, becoming a special, anything else remotely PCSO orientated!!

Moderator: national-PCSOs

POLICE OFFICERS, SHOULD PCSO's BE ISSUED WITH PPE?

You may select 1 option

 
 
View results

Gforceuk
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:24 pm
Contact:

Post by Gforceuk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:01 pm

Jimmy_bobby wrote:
Gforceuk wrote:
Jimmy_bobby wrote:Not an awful lots changed…we’re still getting assaulted every day.
a huge exaggeration there.

I've manage to succesfully NOT be assaulted in 11years of working in one form or another for a police force.....

so WE arent getting assaulted every day.

if someone is getting attacked that much they should

a- look at a different career choice
b- look at how they talk to people
or c-change the area they work


I just came back from a Staff Safety refresher course and every one of us had been assaulted in one form or another, very few had been officially reported.

Out of the 16,000 of us, I am confident in saying. We (PCSOs) are being assaulted every day.
There arent 16000 pcsos.. thats just a figure banded about for the numbers predicted for in a year or so's time.

so in all these miraculous claimed assaults.. how many of those would have people used ppe ?

really ?


hardly any.

In 7 years as a special and doing 1200 hours a year for a few of those i took my baton out on 3 occasions and never used the spray ... Andi know many police officers that havent used them in a long time. . .

having ppe will make no difference to the role apart from give some who have maybe been pushed or something similarly feeble an excuse to get a baton out or spray...

just imagine the headlines ... and before you say anything i know of one pcso that used a cctv van to try and run into a youth on a mini moto once by mounting the pavement... amazing eh.. now imagine what that muppet would do if he had baton and spray ...

and i know of a few others with that mindset.

so.... are pcsos being assaulted every day.... i doubt it to be honest. and if that was the case , you can bet its the same few pcsos that have just handled situations completely innaproprately in most cases.

User avatar
Jimmy_bobby
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1168
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Jimmy_bobby » Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:40 pm

16,000 is the currant figure on the HO website, that’s now, not a projected number by the end of the year.

It’s hard to say if the PCSOs who are being assaulted are dealing with the situation badly, it’s often never reported through the correct channels. Quite frankly we’ll never know, my guess is its six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I admire the fact that you have only had to use the ASP a few times and never the spray and that’s great.

Out of interest Gforce are you 5 foot 9, 9 stone with no self real defense training?

My guess is you’re a bit bigger than that, that you have knowledge (perhaps more than most on here) of self defense and officer safety training, as a special you would have received this. You would have learned break away techniques, restraining and containing etc.

Most PCSOs have not.

I appreciate what you’re saying Gforce, but there are also ex PCs/SCs on here who have had all the kit and now as a PCSO, still see the need for it.

Again as we were saying earlier, there may be a need for extended PPE, just because you have managed to deal with situations without deploying your spray whilst being a Special some years ago, has no relevance to someone NOW wearing a different uniform, working a different beat, with different skills, training and knowledge and physical ability.

User avatar
alihowe
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm
Class: 'Crimson Warrior'
Alignment: 'Vampire'
Sacred: 'Dragoon'
Location: PCSO 6th yr Essex

Post by alihowe » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:01 pm

brianb wrote:If that's the case - surely it is time to accept that the role is untenable.

Although I doubt that your assumption is correct.
The role is good and producing some good results. It's now time to be re-risk assessed that's all. They tried to carry our a risk assessment right at the beginning with no feedback from serving PCSO's. How on earth can you do a risk assessment from that? We're here now, and we're telling them what it's REALLY LIKE OUT THERE!
GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY, GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this than most people do in their entire lives."

brianb
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:16 am

Post by brianb » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:07 pm

So you've only got yourselves to blame if no-one replied.

User avatar
alihowe
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm
Class: 'Crimson Warrior'
Alignment: 'Vampire'
Sacred: 'Dragoon'
Location: PCSO 6th yr Essex

Post by alihowe » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:11 pm

brianb wrote:So you've only got yourselves to blame if no-one replied.
Explain bri?
GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY, GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this than most people do in their entire lives."

User avatar
Big-Si
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 456
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:16 am
Contact:

Post by Big-Si » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:20 pm

Gforceuk wrote: if someone is getting attacked that much they should

a- look at a different career choice
b- look at how they talk to people
or c-change the area they work
I agree on A and B not sure on C though, I think that the demographics of an area can have influence upon an increased likelihood of becoming involved in a conflict situation.

A colleague had a lad turn on him the other night and ended up getting head butted, from what I know his actions had no influence on the chav's behaviour, hejust flipped out.

I agree that there are people out there who just wind people up and are constantly getting assaulted /scrapping and there are some that don't.

However there are people out there who can and do flip and it's in these situations that PPE can be another tool in the box to use. It'slike having a spare tyre in the boot of your car. You're not going to use it every day, nut it's there if you need it.
Ex PCSO

User avatar
alihowe
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm
Class: 'Crimson Warrior'
Alignment: 'Vampire'
Sacred: 'Dragoon'
Location: PCSO 6th yr Essex

Post by alihowe » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:24 pm

Another example, one of many..................... PCSO HEADBUTTED :roll:

It's just not on really is it? :twisted: Police Officer headbutted and all hell would break lose. PCSO heabutted and I can just hear it now "Well he/she shouldn't have been there" ............ ohh makes my blood boil :twisted:
GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY, GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this than most people do in their entire lives."

brianb
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:16 am

Post by brianb » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:25 pm

alihowe wrote:
brianb wrote:So you've only got yourselves to blame if no-one replied.
Explain bri?
Are you saying that no-one got asked for feedback or that no-one gave feedback?

brianb
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1053
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:16 am

Post by brianb » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:29 pm

alihowe wrote:Police Officer headbutted and all hell would break lose. PCSO heabutted and I can just hear it now "Well he/she shouldn't have been there" ............ ohh makes my blood boil :twisted:
Could say the same about the same about the regular, what was his safe distance, did he risk-assess?

I wouldn't be having a go about the CSO for "being there" as it can happen to anyone, even Sergeants :wink:

User avatar
alihowe
Veteran Member
Veteran Member
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:33 pm
Class: 'Crimson Warrior'
Alignment: 'Vampire'
Sacred: 'Dragoon'
Location: PCSO 6th yr Essex

Post by alihowe » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:31 pm

OK if they did, where is this information? How do we get access to it? We never seem to hear about this and get any feedback from it!! :roll: Like someone said earlier, I don't think we're very good at logging confrontational situations, so is it in fact being logged at all?

So many questions....................... :?

As far as we know the powers that be may just think everything if fine and dandy and may not even be aware what we do encounter out there from time to time or how serious it sometimes is. Who knows?
GROWING OLD IS COMPULSARY, GROWING UP IS OPTIONAL.

"You live more in five minutes on a bike like this than most people do in their entire lives."

Gforceuk
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:24 pm
Contact:

Post by Gforceuk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:35 pm

Jimmy_bobby wrote:16,000 is the currant figure on the HO website, that’s now, not a projected number by the end of the year.

It’s hard to say if the PCSOs who are being assaulted are dealing with the situation badly, it’s often never reported through the correct channels. Quite frankly we’ll never know, my guess is its six of one, half a dozen of the other.

I admire the fact that you have only had to use the ASP a few times and never the spray and that’s great.

Out of interest Gforce are you 5 foot 9, 9 stone with no self real defense training?

My guess is you’re a bit bigger than that, that you have knowledge (perhaps more than most on here) of self defense and officer safety training, as a special you would have received this. You would have learned break away techniques, restraining and containing etc.

Most PCSOs have not.

I appreciate what you’re saying Gforce, but there are also ex PCs/SCs on here who have had all the kit and now as a PCSO, still see the need for it.

Again as we were saying earlier, there may be a need for extended PPE, just because you have managed to deal with situations without deploying your spray whilst being a Special some years ago, has no relevance to someone NOW wearing a different uniform, working a different beat, with different skills, training and knowledge and physical ability.
Not that this is relevant to be honest , i'm 6ft and did train for over 14 years in martial arts... but never used any of it to be honest... and its that long ago i'd probably forget what to do..


I've had the same training as a pcso that i did as a special regarding self defence... infact better training as techniques change.

I think the ex pc's ect dont particularly see a need for it , but they miss it ... theres a difference.


The best weapon any pcso has is the mouth.. and brain that engages it... sadly not everyone can use this effectively... which is a training requirement / need...

Gforceuk
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1089
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:24 pm
Contact:

Post by Gforceuk » Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:36 pm

Big-Si wrote:
Gforceuk wrote: if someone is getting attacked that much they should

a- look at a different career choice
b- look at how they talk to people
or c-change the area they work
I agree on A and B not sure on C though, I think that the demographics of an area can have influence upon an increased likelihood of becoming involved in a conflict situation.

A colleague had a lad turn on him the other night and ended up getting head butted, from what I know his actions had no influence on the chav's behaviour, hejust flipped out.

I agree that there are people out there who just wind people up and are constantly getting assaulted /scrapping and there are some that don't.

However there are people out there who can and do flip and it's in these situations that PPE can be another tool in the box to use. It'slike having a spare tyre in the boot of your car. You're not going to use it every day, nut it's there if you need it.
pc's get headbutted ect ... but again ppe wouldnt have stopped this... what would have stopped this is a better awareness of your own saftey and danger signs.... and dynamic risk assesment.

oli
Committee Member
Committee Member
Posts: 498
Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 5:48 pm

Post by oli » Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:15 pm

The best weapon any pcso has is the mouth..
Your completely right Gforce
BUT

sometimes you cant get out of this no matter how good you are with your mouth I found this working retail, but then we just had to make do till a PC arrived.

User avatar
Headset 57
Elite Legion
Elite Legion
Posts: 1817
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 4:29 pm

Post by Headset 57 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:12 am

Even skippers get headed, when they get right up and too close:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=7VXjusMxC6A :roll:

No reactionary gap there!...
'You can always find a Question for an Answer
But you can't always find an Answer for a Question'

User avatar
Jimmy_bobby
Elite Member
Elite Member
Posts: 1168
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 2:23 pm

Post by Jimmy_bobby » Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:44 am

Gforceuk wrote:
Not that this is relevant to be honest , i'm 6ft and did train for over 14 years in martial arts... ...


As I thought. You’re a big lad; you have 14 years martial arts training behind you…you don’t forget 14 years of martial arts training.

Your physical ability is probably far greater than many on here. Which is exactly my point. There are probably many specials that worked at the same time as you, who deployed their PPE far more often, and why shouldn’t they, if the situation arises and they feel threatened..

My point still stands, there are people being assaulted all the time, not every one is able to talk their way out of situations and not every one has the confidence of 14 years martial arts training if it goes pear shaped to fall back on.


We are not trained to the same standard as you guys, we are not all 6ft, with 14 years martial arts training Gforce, we are not all experienced officers with years under our belts.
I've had the same training as a pcso that i did as a special regarding self defence... infact better training as techniques change.

I would have thought that your special training in OST, baton strikes, restraining, breakaway etc was far more intense as a Constable then as a PCSO, though I understand BTP are different from the rest of us HO forces.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic